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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be relieved the world is starting to see some sense?

782 replies

portugalq · 19/06/2022 18:26

Fina bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/61853450

OP posts:
VestofAbsurdity · 24/06/2022 14:06

TullyApplebottom · 24/06/2022 13:58

And there is nothing to transition from or to. And we can all go home! Praise be

Exactly, our dear friend who claim to be uber supportive and totally pro trans has just denied the very existence of trans.

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 14:06

What else has no defining criteria?

Cookies' ability to reason.

Mascia · 24/06/2022 14:08

How can people "share the identity of woman" when it's a "personal identity" without "any defining criteria"?
How can you share something that can't be defined?

334bu · 24/06/2022 14:14

StolenCookie is managing to divert the whole topic of the gross unfairness of male athletes being allowed to compete with women,; an unfairness which results in denying them the opportunities of scholarships, prize money,professional contracts, sponsorship etc,etc.
Sporting bodies have colluded with TRA lobbying groups to introduce with absolutely no scientific evidence , male bodied athletes into the female category and have thus excluded women from the benefits that performing at an elite level can bring. The professional women cyclists denied prize money and professional contracts, the Argentinian female footballers losing places on top flight teams to biological males, the female volleyball players who cant play professionally, the female snowboarder losing prize money, the female golfers losing prize money, the female archer and weightlifters denied Olympic status and all the little girls who no longer play a sport they love because a biological male makes competing unsafe or takes their place.

VestofAbsurdity · 24/06/2022 14:21

Yes @334bu and justified it all on the basis of something, something, something, identity, no criteria, feelings, not nice. Thankfully, FINA have seen sense, used science and actual provable defining criteria and said NO.

My gripe is that it should NEVER have got this far in the first place.

jeaux90 · 24/06/2022 14:34

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 13:39

What is the fear surrounding trans women? Do you feel that women are unsafe in a world in which trans women exist?

Transwomen are males.

Males commit 98% of sexual assaults.

Males with special identities do not belong in womens sports, spaces or services.

It's really that simple.

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 14:41

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 13:55

Several people on here think you are a man, Cookies. You champion sexual harassment, discredit women, make creepy comments about me liking you, demand respect for errant knobs and don't give a shit about women's dignity and safety. To many of us, those are typically male traits. If there's no objective definition of what is a man or woman, why are you so outraged that some of us think you're a man? If there's no definition, how can we possibly be wrong?

Where have I been outraged?

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 14:46

I wasn't going to go there, Cookies, but you have forced me to the discourtesy.

The evidence shows that male-to-female individuals retain male patterns regarding criminality. And they'll all be thrilled to know you're on the side of respecting their knobs out in women's spaces. Go you.

Full study here.

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 14:48

jeaux90 · 24/06/2022 14:34

Transwomen are males.

Males commit 98% of sexual assaults.

Males with special identities do not belong in womens sports, spaces or services.

It's really that simple.

I guess this is where I fundamentally disagree with you. Trans women are women, not men.

And I will continue to use whatever power and voice I have in the world to support trans rights and their right to exist in peace.

For people who don’t believe I am pregnant, that’s fine, but however my child chooses to identify, that is how I will see them.

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 14:51

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 14:46

I wasn't going to go there, Cookies, but you have forced me to the discourtesy.

The evidence shows that male-to-female individuals retain male patterns regarding criminality. And they'll all be thrilled to know you're on the side of respecting their knobs out in women's spaces. Go you.

Full study here.

Lol. What is this? This hasn’t even been published?

babyjellyfish · 24/06/2022 14:52

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 14:48

I guess this is where I fundamentally disagree with you. Trans women are women, not men.

And I will continue to use whatever power and voice I have in the world to support trans rights and their right to exist in peace.

For people who don’t believe I am pregnant, that’s fine, but however my child chooses to identify, that is how I will see them.

What about women's right to exist in peace?

VestofAbsurdity · 24/06/2022 14:55

And I will continue to use whatever power and voice I have in the world to support trans rights and their right to exist in peace.

Ardent feminist are you? Aye pull the other one it's got bells on it. An ardent feminist would be supporting the rights of women, not men.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 24/06/2022 15:01

Where have I been outraged?

probably the sane page you got all of you incredibly angry from

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 15:11

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 14:51

Lol. What is this? This hasn’t even been published?

It's well-researched, fully cited expert evidence submitted to and accepted by Parliament. If it's good enough for Parliament, it's definitely good enough for someone who doesn't know what a woman is but definitely knows trans women are women.

You could do a much better job of dismissing it if you actually read it, but nobody is expecting anything intelligent from you. I'm just showing it for the benefit of the lurkers. It's a good addition to the great job you're doing showing them the idiotic, dishonest and dangerous fallacy this entire ideology is based on.

CaliforniaDrumming · 24/06/2022 15:11

You must have noticed that we arent outraged at being called TERFS either. That ship has sailed.

TheKeatingFive · 24/06/2022 15:12

Trans women are women, not men.

And I am a cat.

Makes every bit as much sense as what you're saying.

FemmeNatal · 24/06/2022 15:16

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 14:48

I guess this is where I fundamentally disagree with you. Trans women are women, not men.

And I will continue to use whatever power and voice I have in the world to support trans rights and their right to exist in peace.

For people who don’t believe I am pregnant, that’s fine, but however my child chooses to identify, that is how I will see them.

Argument by assertion again. Seriously, where are your degrees from, and how did you not learn about how to form a coherent argument?

VestofAbsurdity · 24/06/2022 15:35

Argument by assertion again. Seriously, where are your degrees from, and how did you not learn about how to form a coherent argument?

Stance of the true believer @FemmeNatal and one who clearly doesn't know any history.

WooFighters · 24/06/2022 15:40

Nothing like pushing a baby out your vagina to make you realise sex is real though.

Of course, you'll struggle infinitely more if pushing it out your lady penis.

TheElementsSong · 24/06/2022 15:40

I must applaud Cookie's sterling efforts. From sad-eyed faux-concern about Naughty Language to full-on Repetitive Empty Meaningless Battle-Mantra in less than a day.

If anybody at all reading this thread is still undecided, just look at these copious "arguments" and consider whether there is any substance at all.

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 15:43

I should clarify, the study I cited certainly does not mean all transwomen are predators. It simply means that they are no more or less likely to be than any other adult male.

Most aren't, but enough are that we require safeguards. Claiming a trans identity doesn't lower the risk.

CaliforniaDrumming · 24/06/2022 15:45

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 15:43

I should clarify, the study I cited certainly does not mean all transwomen are predators. It simply means that they are no more or less likely to be than any other adult male.

Most aren't, but enough are that we require safeguards. Claiming a trans identity doesn't lower the risk.

Yes they are no more likely to be predators. But as with other men I won't know until is too late.

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 16:03

ReneBumsWombats · 24/06/2022 15:11

It's well-researched, fully cited expert evidence submitted to and accepted by Parliament. If it's good enough for Parliament, it's definitely good enough for someone who doesn't know what a woman is but definitely knows trans women are women.

You could do a much better job of dismissing it if you actually read it, but nobody is expecting anything intelligent from you. I'm just showing it for the benefit of the lurkers. It's a good addition to the great job you're doing showing them the idiotic, dishonest and dangerous fallacy this entire ideology is based on.

“Fully cited”? Citing something doesn’t make it credible, lol. Also the citations appear to be other websites 😹 I’ve clicked the links and they’re broken.

This isn’t a peer reviewed study published in a journal. It’s just something on a word document.

This ‘study’ really isn’t the ‘AHA’ that you think it is 😹

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 16:06

CaliforniaDrumming · 24/06/2022 15:11

You must have noticed that we arent outraged at being called TERFS either. That ship has sailed.

Again - quote me where I have tried to ‘outrage’ you. Someone self-identified as a TERF up thread so I used it as an accurate descriptor. For me it’s just a description of your position, it’s not an attempt to insult you… ?

FemmeNatal · 24/06/2022 16:07

StolenCookie · 24/06/2022 16:03

“Fully cited”? Citing something doesn’t make it credible, lol. Also the citations appear to be other websites 😹 I’ve clicked the links and they’re broken.

This isn’t a peer reviewed study published in a journal. It’s just something on a word document.

This ‘study’ really isn’t the ‘AHA’ that you think it is 😹

It’s written evidence to parliament, not a scientific paper submitted to a journal.

You really have no interest in an honest conversation here, do you? You just want to regurgitate TRA mantras and dodge awkward questions.

Why is it that none of you have the education or intelligence to engage in a proper discussion?