To be relieved the world is starting to see some sense?

[portugalq]

Fina bars transgender swimmers from women's elite events if they went through male puberty www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/61853450

A woman is whoever identifies as one! I don’t believe it can be objectively defined.

Then how do you know which competition and which changing room Thomas should enter?

How do you know which of your parents is your mother?

A cat is whoever identifies as one. It can't be defined. Similarly an ironing board.

Maybe I'm actually a skyscraper 🤔

If you can't define a woman, how do you define a transwoman?

@StolenCookie How do you know you are a woman if 'woman' can't be objectively defined? Or do you not know?

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=twitter.com/zubymusic/status/1100348562041462784%3Flang%3Den&ved=2ahUKEwiL74nS-cX4AhUyQEEAHUUJAcQQwqsBegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw34cBAqix0nGTqYO0KPlRfv" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The rapper Zuby beat a women's weightlifting record while identifying as a woman.

Why is Zuby not now listed as one of the strongest women in the world, if a woman is both indefinable and also anyone who identifies as one? This is rank injustice. Aren't you going to fight for Zuby's medal?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_sussex

From just after 11 discussion on whether male athletes who identify as women should be included in female sport.

I don’t understand why you keep (repeatedly) distinguishing between women and transwomen.

You say they’re one and the same.

So why do you keep referring to women and transwomen?

Also, just wondering @StolenCookie - do you know how babies are made?

Don't know what happened there. Here's the link.

Justice for Zuby the strongwoman.

Because you are either born in what you feel is the correct body for you (cis women) or born into a different body that doesn’t match your gender identity (trans women).

What if some of us feel we are born in the wrong human body and identify with cats? I have a cat whom I adore and I often feel closer to her than humans.

Because you are either born in what you feel is the correct body for you (cis women) or born into a different body that doesn’t match your gender identity (trans women).

I thought you agreed not to use that offensive term any more.

What is a woman's body?

You're very far behind the time Stolen, no one says born in the wrong body anymore. Not even those crackpots Mermaids.

Because you are either born in what you feel is the correct body for you (cis women) or born into a different body that doesn’t match your gender identity (trans women).

This tedious, illogical waffle just gets worse. How can you be born into a body? What kind of risible nonsense is that?

and coming from someone, allegedly, pregnant....

or born into a different body that doesn’t match your gender identity

How would you know if another body matches your gender identity? You've never been in another.

What if you're born into a body that doesn't match your internally understood racial identity? Why is that not legit?

And more fundamentally than any of that, you can't actually escape your own body. Chopping bits off it doesn't make it essentially different.

We are only our bodies. You are positing a dualist view, that there is a sexed soul which exists independently of our physical selves. That is completely unevidenced. It’s a religious / spiritual viewpoint.

The whole idea of being in the 'wrong body' is so bizarre. You cant be in another one.

You are again using the offensive term “cis”. Why are you choosing to be offensive like this?

I agreed not to use it in relation to yourselves. I identify as a cis woman and I have every right to state that!

That's a very good question and I'm yet to see a coherent answer - can anyone self-identify as anything? If that is how they feel?
How can words have meanings if we can't define them?

But you aren't using it only for yourself. You have imposed your view upon us by stating "you are either born in what you feel is the correct body for you (cis women) or born into a different body that doesn’t match your gender identity (trans women)."

You are being highly offensive, misgendering us and mislabelling us.

What is a woman's body?

How can you identify as a woman if woman is indefinable?

But that doesn’t make any sense.

You’re saying transwomen are women?

Once you’ve answered that question - which is ‘why are there different words for women and transwomen if they’re exactly the same thing?’, I’ll repeat my other question for you.

I don’t want to derail getting an answer to the first question.

So what do male people who believe they were born in the wrong body have in common with female people who don't believe they were born in the wrong body?

Well, I may have started off reading the thread thinking FINA's carefully researched and worded statement was sensible, but StolenCookie's glittering arguments have persuaded me otherwise. I now know:

-it's really hard to define a "woman", but if a man says he is one then he definitely is (whatever it is).
-if you are in a female changing room and you see a penis, it's awfully rude of you to call it a knob.

I hope other lurkers are similarly enlightened.