AIBU to do the bare minimum with the kids

[Redcar87]

I work full time, have 2DC under 3, and manage all the life admin and house stuff. DH veers between entirely useless and trying his best. He works part time for MH reasons.

DS1 is a handful. He is also pretty mean to DS2. Well ignores him and tells him to go away a lot. They fight over me constantly. DS2 wakes through the night.

Anyway my questions is that I basically do the minimum to get through the days and evenings. So right now I'm watching DS1 pour expensive bird food all over the grass rather than stop him and face a tantrum. Or I let DS2 eat chocolate for breakfast because it kept him quiet for 5 mins. Days like today and its just me at home with both DC and I try to think of things to do but the thought of doing an activity with all the fighting and mess and the 2DC arguing...I'm probs just going to stick cartoons on and just wish the hours away until I can go back to bed.

Do people just get through this bit? I do love them and they're so sweet but they are relentless in wanting to break stuff, fight, cry. So for example I made them pancakes and they argued over which one they wanted to eat and all of it ended up in the bin in a tantrum. So j just gave them a cereal bar and ignored them

I'm a terrible mum maybe. Or is using screens and snacks OK? Sometimes I let DC1 get away with so much rather than face the tantrum. I've been ill this week too and I just can't find the energy

You're making a rod for your own back here. Unfortunately they will learn very, very quickly that even the threat of a tantrum will get them exactly what they want. Having 2 so young is really tough though. I would say separate them if you can and they fight a lot, let your DH look after one and you do things with the other and then swap on Sunday so they each get time with each of you. Take your one out to tire them out, to the park, swimming, to the woods, for a walk, to soft play. Take them to the library and choose some books to read. I just think at that age one is a lot easier to deal with than two and if they don't get on well then splitting them between the two of you might just keep you sane.

You will also find the more time you spend with them and the more you do with them the more they will listen to you and want to please you. Be clear to them about what you need them to do and what you expect of them, tell them what is going to be happening during the day so they know what to expect. If tantrums don't get them anywhere and are ignored and quickly moved on from (by you) then they will stop as they will learn they don't work. Make sure you notice and praise them every time they behave well, use a really enthusiastic and happy voice (even if completely put on!) to help motivate and encourage them. If you can find the energy to put the work in then I promise it will be worth it - make sure you look after yourself too though as much as possible by going to bed early, eating well and not stressing about housework.

You sound a bit burnt out to me. There are lots of activities you can set up for your little children and you can lie back, relax and watch.

Sensory play: sandpit, water play, fingerpaint, play dough etc.

Musical instruments like shakers, bongo drums, bells, xylophone etc.

Cover a kids table in paper, secure it with cello tape and provide large crayons for drawing all over the covered tabletop.

Provide age appropriate climbing equipment.

Use large sheets or blankets for play spaces. Put the toys on the sheet or blanket and at the end of the day pull up the corners so toys are contained in the sheet/blanket, tie the corners together and put away. Great for not having to pack away individual toys and then are easy to set back on the floor the next day.

If your children go to nursery have a look around the room for inspiration. If they are not in nursery then maybe consider enrolling them so you can give yourself a bit of a break to recharge.

Sorry for long message just then. I just kept typing. Opps.

With water play stuff...so I bought them a big pirate ship for the garden, filled with water and toys. DS2 loves it, DS1 looked at it, poked it a bit, and then hasn't looked at it again.

Honestly they sound bored and understimulated. I have two young kids very close in age so I know how tough it is but mine definitely act out when they don't feel like they're getting attention from me or they don't have anything to entertain them. The fighting with each other will ease if they're engaged in something entertaining. Tv is fine for short periods but they honestly get so restless sitting still watching tv and then they start acting up and bickering with each other. It's such a tough age and hard with a small age gap, so I 100% sympathise. But do try to find something to entertain them, either a run around the park or set up an activity. Have a look on Instagram or Pinterest for invitations to play. Normally you can get them interested and then step back to have a breather while they carry on playing. My kids love a couple of handfuls of dry pasta in a tray with some scoops, jugs and bowls and they will play for hours

Also you really need your oh to step up. Is he getting support for his mental health? Can you have a frank discussion about what you need from him and get him to commit to set tasks to pull his weight?

@Redcar87 I just read your updates. Are you getting any time at all for yourself? Because it is hard to find time for that, I know. I’m not a perfect parent and didn’t find time for myself either. But it’s crucial. Parental burnout is really hard to bounce back from.

I don't have kids, but all I remember of my own childhood was my mum leaving me along to do the following:

• up to age 3: playing with cardboard boxes
• age 3-8: digging holes in the garden or mixing soil with water in an old saucepan
• age 8-11: recording my own radio shows
• age 11+: chilling out listening to my Walkman

I swear she never once played with me and we never did anything or went anywhere. It was awesome!

You’re not a terrible mum at all. You’re doing what you need to do to survive in the best way that you can, while you have a lot on your plate.

The fact that you’re questioning the way you’re doing things might mean that you’re moving on from survival a little bit and starting to think about how you can make life a bit better for yourself.

Do you get any regular headspace to yourself? I think this is no.1 priority to sort out really, and I would explore this first before thinking about going to the GP - you have a DH to look after the kids, so get out of the house one evening a week (so that you don’t get hooked into helping out with bedtime etc) and go and sit somewhere peaceful or do something fun or see an uplifting friend or go for a swim or a walk - something that refreshes your spirit. You’ll start to feel better in yourself, more refreshed and able to face the time with your family.

Having that regular time for yourself is really important. At the moment it sounds like you’re looking after everyone else and you’re burned out so you’re zoning out so your kids act up and it becomes a vicious cycle. So you need to shift the momentum by doing something you have total control over - investing some time in yourself.

Once you have a bit more emotional energy, other things will start to slot into place - you might find you have a bit more fight in you to tell the kids where a boundary is and stick to it, or a bit more inspiration to set up an activity which captures their attention.

Nothing is an overnight fix, but keep paying attention to what makes you feel good and what drains you, and keep making little tweaks towards feeling better.

I get you OP, I really do but days like today you need to get out to the park/beach/ woods with a picnic. My kids best days out ever were by the river collecting sticks or skimming stones or just walking through woods exploring.

Let them wear themselves out. They play up because they're bored at home and they don't sleep well as they're under exercised.

The real problem here though is not your perfectly normal kids but your useless DH.

When you’re feeling overwhelmed imagine you’re in a play, or being filmed. With the pirate ship fill it up talking about what you’re doing and giving ds1 either or questions- warm or cold water? Shall we use spoons or cups to move the water around?

Also agree with @satelliteheart

Or is using screens and snacks OK? Sometimes I let DC1 get away with so much rather than face the tantrum.

Yes yes to pp who said this is short term gain long term pain. You wont achieve anything and you lose the value of offering these things less frequently as a treat or reward.

For diet things you have to look at a whole day or a whole week’s food to know if things are ok.
Chocolate is really high in sugar and fat and contains small amounts of protein and some trace useful micronutrients like magnesium. It’s not evil, it’s not devoid of nutrition but you do have to limit it because it tastes amazing but doesn’t have a great nutritional balance. But it does not make any difference whatsoever if your kids have a square of chocolate for breakfast everyday or a square of chocolate as part of an afternoon snack or after dinner dessert. The timing does not matter. In fact breakfast time even has a bit of an advantage over afternoon snack time in that you price clean their teeth shortly afterwards.
Garden toys sound like a winning idea here. Water tables are amazing. Find a chair you can sit in and have coffee and watch the kids pour water from one container to the other for hours (or 20minutes, but that’s still a major win).
Get some kids books that make you smile and embrace the reading them 10times over thing.
Get kids toys that you enjoy mindlessly fiddling with. I like duplo and will happily build towers with my toddlers because I enjoy the feel of the blocks.
Pick out some toys that involve no cleanup and little input from you. I love those water pen colouring sets - the ones with a hollow pen you fill with water and then colour over a plasticky page and it reveals a picture. Then it dries and you can start again. If the kids colour on the walls/furniture/each other it doesn’t matter one bit because it’s just a small streak of plain water.
Have you got any nice local parks with a fenced kid’s play area? Go regularly. Ditto walks with the kids in the pushchair (have you got a double? Or maybe pushchair for youngest and a balance bike for eldest + a safe walk with no road/canal to fall in? Around a big park maybe? For lots of toddlers the answer when they start playing up is to take them outside. It can have an instant calming effect on some children. It definitely works for mine.

fuck it, give yourself an easy morning, sounds like you need it. Chocolate cake for breakfast - why not…. Expensive bird seed - let the birds eat.

you need some help, have you got anyone close to you to chat through this to help you find a way through it?

Will they play with objects? Mine don’t play with toys but they’ll play with things like saucepans, cake tins, wooden spoons etc. Some days I just stick them outside with a bucket of water, some kitchen items, and some herbs cut from the garden. They like making mud pies, potions, and mixing it all together.

I wonder if a more structured routine would help all of you, and give some predictability and take away the effort of having to plan / think what to do?

I'll be honest OP, it doesn't sound great. I'm not judging you though, you sound like you're not coping. You've got such a lot on your plate. Working full time and juggling two small children is challenging itself without also adding a partner with mental health issues into the mix. It doesn't sound like you were looking after yourself very well before having children - no clean knickers?! I can only imagine having children has exacerbated things.

Ideally, you'd drop a day at work so you're less stressed and have more time to do everything so things aren't as overwhelming. And ideally, your partner would increase his work hours and step up to do his half of the housework, parenting and generally providing you with some kind of support. However, it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.

Please speak to your health visitor and tell them you're struggling. See what they can offer. Maybe also your GP and social services. Depending on your area, there could be Early Help services and parenting classes.

You sound stressed out and burnt out. You're trying to do everything on your own, it must be so isolating and lonely for you.

I hope things get better for you and your family.

I think my childhood was like that. I think the closest I got to playing with my parents was when they were doing the banking for the family business and I would pile the pennies up in 12s to make shillings, then the sixpences into piles (I think they went into 5 shilling piles) and so on with shillings, 2 shillings etc. I was very good at counting by the time I started school and could count in 12s and 20s (old money) It doesn't sound like much fun but was the best day of the week.

You're working really long hrs op and it's taking a toll.
Would a routine for saturdays help?
I always found that sticking to a routine helped to carve out time to relax.
When my 2 ds were similar ages I'd do the following to help the day go smoother -

• only go downstairs after everyone was dressed and teeth were brushed.
• make lunch while they were having breakfast (usually with the tv on) to either have at home or take out (just sandwich or pasta or omelette usually), grab bananas and other snacks.
• figure out what we'd have for dinner and get some if that prepped.
• put a wash in
• go out somewhere taking lunch and water
• come back and put the tv on for dcs
• sit in the same room and have a cup of tea
• afternoon play

Chocolate for breakfast isn't that bad, the French seem to do OK on pain au chocolat.

I have a good job and I work hard, but my own personal routines have always been chaotic, finding clothes off the floor, losing things, never clean underwear. So I find it really hard to stick to routines with the kids.

This sounds like some sort of executive dysfunction - I have adhd and I can’t do routines and always lose items. Any other symptoms like this?

Also, is your partner claiming PIP? If not, apply for it asap. It's a non means-tested benefit for people with ongoing health issues. Contact Citizens Advice or your local mental health charity for help or guidance filling in tbe form.

DH veers between entirely useless and trying his best. He works part time for MH reasons.
I appreciate DH has mental health issues, but you are effectively a single parent because of this. Can he really do nothing with the children? Can he get more help with his mental health?

I understand its hard but your setting yourself up for years of tantrums, fighting and really naughty behaviour. My friend was and still is like this with her 5 Yr old. I can tell you that she now experiences some of the worst behaviour iv ever witnessed in a 5 year old. Positive discipline, from an early age, is key! Start now and this will improve. My friend didnt listen. No shouting, swearing, anger from you just a low tone, firm voice telling them no and make sure you explain why they can't so something. Naughty step or if you don't like that then call it a thinking step or a thinking spot (don't use bedrooms). Sit them on it, leave for 2-3 mins and then go back, get down the their level and ask them to explain what happened, why they had to go to thinking spot and get them to apologise then you all move on. If they get up during their time on thinking spot put them back to it. Use reward charts, praise the good, 'punish' the bad (as in they don't get a star etc) . Plan activities that they both enjoy and again use your firm and low tone of voice of they start to act out. Praise the good, always - lots of claps, smiles, happy/excited well done/good girl/boy etc. Don't ignore the bad - recognise it in your low firm tone - tell them no and why and then distract them. (I work in families) good luck, I know it's hard.

I think you think you’re making your life easier

but actually you’re not

sounds a pretty unhappy way to live

doesn’t sound chilled. It sounds like you have no motivation to do anything.

i am a single parent. No support. I find hauling ass and making plans, getting out outside, doing things and factoring in lots of chilled time - makes for happy children and happy me

I know someone who was exactly like this for the toddler years. Both kids are now at school (youngest in reception) and the behaviour in my eyes is completely unacceptable. Extremely fussy eaters where the younger has picked up on the elders habits but gone worse to the point most meals start with a tantrum unless it’s exactly what he wants (basically only pasta with tons and tons of cheese). They demand tablets and phone all the time. Suppose to get 1 hour a day but regularly extended multiple times to keep the peace. Have full run and rule of every room in the house, moving, damaging and breaking all household items including stuff that is valuable to their mother (makeup, perfume etc). She spends a significant part of her day on hands and knees cleaning up after them as she has never insisted they tidy up after themselves. I routinely see the kids pick something up from one room or the wrapper of something they have just finished eating, drop it where they stand and then just walk off. They fight and argue all the time, the younger in particular resorts to hitting, spitting etc very quickly which is about the only time he will get told off and says a fake apology before doing it again 20 mins later. Despite this behaviour they get hot chocolate at wake up and bedtime and a choice of sweet snacks and dessert every day. A complete lack of respect for everything their mum does for them.

Get on top of it whilst you can. Do a family meal plan, encourage ideas from them and make it clear each morning what they’ll be eating later that day and at dinner time talk about what they’ll be having tomorrow - gives them time to process and not be so surprised and angry with what turns up at the table. Set some basic rules and natural consequences for anything that clearly crosses a line e.g. hitting. Try to encourage some time where they play separately each day so at least there is some peace - more easily done if they have separate rooms.