To think it should have come out of her pocket money not my son's?

[Kiplingsroad]

My DC had to bring a small amount of money to an event for school yesterday. He brought it on the correct day and tried to give it to the TA and she said, no, you've already paid, you don't need to give me money.

She then came up to me today and asked me for money as he should have paid, she had made an error yesterday.

I asked him where it was and he said he'd lost it (he's 8 and probably put it in his pocket and it fell out in playground, I imagine.)

I said, sorry, he's lost it.

She said you still need to pay, he hasn't paid.

I said, but he had the money, he tried to do the right thing and pay you, and now he's lost it.

She then said, well, come inside and she found another teacher to translate (we're in Germany) and the conversation continued with her saying he shouldn't have lost it, he's going into year three, he needs to be more careful, and it should come out of his pocket money.

I said, look,the point is he tried to do the right thing and was stopped by you. Why should it come out of his pocket money if he then loses it? He shouldn't have had it on him in the first place to lose.

She was furious. She has form for being quite tough on him and has been for two years. He is having friendship issues, has just been diagnosed with dyslexia, and absolutely hates school. So in this case I felt it was unfair of her to blame him for her error, and chase me up.

WIBU?

For context, this is for an event at the school, so all money goes into a pot, and I spent plenty of money anyway - I actually bought a kid whose mum hadn't got there yet a bratwurst, so they did get the money in the end.

I think you're wrong in this case. If I lose my rent money after their office is closed unexpectedly....does that mean I don't owe them rent? The onus is on you to pay whether your son lost it or not

Is it really worth upsetting the teacher for a small amount of money. Perhaps smile sweetly and hand the cash over next time you see her.

‘Perhaps she was only following orders’

Nazi jokes about Germans got old about half a century ago.

Just one more thing I forgot to say in my last post:

Complaining about teachers is often an even worse uphill battle in Germany than in many other countries because a lot of teachers are 'verbeamtet' (civil servants) and practically impossible to fire. They would have to fuck up very, very badly to be disciplined, let alone actually lose their job. Being lazy / unpleasant / a bit of a bully / entirely unsuitable for the job sadly wouldn't be anywhere near enough. Many teachers are motivated and lovely, but the system does produce a certain number of bad apples who then go on to do quite significant damage.

I had a maths teacher who was constantly ogling and making sleazy little comments to teenage girls. He would also bully pupils he'd taken a dislike to relentlessly (bad enough to regularly make kids cry in front of the whole class). Several parents (including my mother) approached the head together, repeatedly. Nothing changed, there were zero consequences for him and if anything, he made life even more miserable for those who had complained. We had this same teacher for 4 years in a row and it completely spoilt maths for me. I was so terrified of him I started skipping lessons for fear of being his chosen victim of the day.
This was in the late 90s / early 2000s. One would hope things have changed in the meantime, but as long as 'Verbeamtung' is a thing, I'm convinced this type of thing will remain a problem. Certainly one very good reason to go private if you can.

OP she did not ‘set him up to fail’. Your issues with this TA are clouding your judgement. She made a mistake, it’s allowed, but it’s not her fault your DS lost the money. You don’t want to accept any answer that isn’t slating her. Yes it’s annoying , my kids have managed this a few times but I was irritated with them rather than the person sorting out 30 odd kids. Take a bit of responsibility and stop placing all the blame on the TA.

"Nazi jokes about Germans got old about half a century ago."
Thanks for the heads-up. I'd have said it was a 'cultural' comment rather than a n@zi one, but each to his/her own. (My brother's lived in Germany for decades and reckons it still holds true. Nevertheless, anecdotal, I suppose.)
I was somewhat amused by the news that VW had fibbed about their emissions 'efficiency' given the usual association of that term and Teutonic.

If this is just a charity contribution then it’s option al and you don’t owe anyone money. I’m so glad I home educate because I was sick of these constant money making events by the school. Something happened every month and there was never anything to show for it

You should have taken the money to the school yourself! You absolutely cannot expect a child of 8 to be responsible for money. You shouldn’t take it out of his pocket money either! YOU are the adult so YOU should not have sent the money via an 8-year-old boy!
Also…. You live in Germany so learn the language! How can you properly communicate with people who are responsible for your child during the day if you don’t even speak German?
Your son is a C H I L D. Let him live a child’s life without punishment for your own faults.

The TA sounds pretty unpleasant.
I agree that you still need to pay the money though.

OP Yes you should pay twice. She made a mistake. She thought he had paid and he hadn't. She then explained it to you. The fact that he lost it is neither here nor there. She obviously suggested pocket money as you were being so ridiculous as to refuse to pay it. Clearly, you dislike her so are making a massive fuss about nothing. Just pay what you owe FGS.

You don’t seem to be making it easy for him being so difficult yourself

The TA sounds awful. I would speak to the SENDCO. It sounds like they may need to rewrite whatever the German equivalent of his ECHP is. The fact that he's 8 is irrelevant here, a TA is allocated on need. I would pay the money though as it seems like they are being unreasonable and if he's your son's TA he's stuck with her.

It gets better in secondary as TAs are often shared and you don't have one stuck to your child like glue. But there are huge differences in TAs - some are wonderful, others less so.

Poor kid, but just pay. Why be a bloody TA and behave like that, it will get easier with the dyslexia, have you tried him on a reading pen ?

You owe the school money.

And.

Your son lost money.

These are independent things.

The teacher was unreasonable for being furious and saying it should come out of his pocket money as if he’s done something naughty*. It’s just one of those things that happens sometimes and is nothing to be angry about.

You should still pay though.

• It’s one of my pet hates when children are deemed naughty for having accidents. 🤬

I’m thinking it’s not the child that’s being difficult. It’s the family that will be branded difficult and the child will not come out of this well.
Pay up and remember your child will be branded by your actions. It’s not about you it’s all about the best interest of your child.

I'm amazed that any school collects cash these days. Covid was the catalyst for moving everything to cashless payments.
Besides the obvious advantages of students not bringing cash to school there is also a full audit trail of payments (& refunds if made for any reason) so conversations such as this never need to take place.

Just wanted to jump on and say @Kiplingsroad I'm so so shocked at the responses here. I don't get people who are saying "the TA made a mistake and your son made a mistake, neither of them should have to pay". Why should the OP then have to pay?! She's the only one who didn't make a mistake (and, no, sending her son straight in to pay wasn't a mistake, clearly, as he took the money to the TA successfully, therefore proving it was the right choice)

Your poor son, and I DO think that you shouldn't have to pay double (which you would be, as the money has been deducted from your purse twice) because his money was rejected when he tried to give it. This is where there should have been a "sorry, there was an error, but as it was on our side, we will write it off". And I would feel this way even if it was a school visit.

I hope your son manages to find a happier, kinder (pun not intended!) side to school soon!

No, there were still two errors. Yes she made a mistake, but your son still lost the money and still owes it.

I think you are letting your upset over everything else cloud your judgement.

I'm totally with you on this, OP. If she hadn't have name the mistake of NOT letting him pay in the first instance, then he wouldn't have lost it.

I don't think the TA needs to pay, but I do think in the circumstances, the school should waive his fee for the arm band. Its a fundraiser, the school are not out of pocket through not getting his money.

• MADE the mistake... not NAME.

YABVU
No, he didn't lose it because the TA did not take it. He lost it because he was careless.

If my 8 year old has to take money in for something 2 euros or 20/30 for a trip it goes in a sealed envelope with his and teachers names on in the A4 folder they keep in their bags for worksheets, letters and odds and sods. He gets the school bus so any money he put on his pocket in the morning would undoubtedly be lost on there. That TA sounds horrible though.

LOL some people would really benefit from leaving the UK from time to time.

Cash is still used regularly in plenty of countries, including Germany. Not at all uncommon to go out for a meal in Berlin and have to pay cash.

You’ve had several TAs and Teachers telling you that they would not have acted in the way your sons TA has.

I think the woman was heavy handed and quite rude actually. I wouldn’t have paid without an apology for her mistake.