To think it should have come out of her pocket money not my son's?

[Kiplingsroad]

My DC had to bring a small amount of money to an event for school yesterday. He brought it on the correct day and tried to give it to the TA and she said, no, you've already paid, you don't need to give me money.

She then came up to me today and asked me for money as he should have paid, she had made an error yesterday.

I asked him where it was and he said he'd lost it (he's 8 and probably put it in his pocket and it fell out in playground, I imagine.)

I said, sorry, he's lost it.

She said you still need to pay, he hasn't paid.

I said, but he had the money, he tried to do the right thing and pay you, and now he's lost it.

She then said, well, come inside and she found another teacher to translate (we're in Germany) and the conversation continued with her saying he shouldn't have lost it, he's going into year three, he needs to be more careful, and it should come out of his pocket money.

I said, look,the point is he tried to do the right thing and was stopped by you. Why should it come out of his pocket money if he then loses it? He shouldn't have had it on him in the first place to lose.

She was furious. She has form for being quite tough on him and has been for two years. He is having friendship issues, has just been diagnosed with dyslexia, and absolutely hates school. So in this case I felt it was unfair of her to blame him for her error, and chase me up.

WIBU?

For context, this is for an event at the school, so all money goes into a pot, and I spent plenty of money anyway - I actually bought a kid whose mum hadn't got there yet a bratwurst, so they did get the money in the end.

I teach 8 year old children. If I’d made the mistake the TA made, I’d accept it was my fault and cover the cost myself. Schools/PTAs generally have a discreet way of making sure that children don’t miss out.

Cannot understand why the TA wants to draw so much attention to the fact that she’s either too disorganised to manage a simple tick list, or mean enough to set up a small child with additional needs to fail.

Children do need to learn to become more independent. Some need more support than others. Punishing children for adult mistakes doesn’t help.

It sounds to me like you are defending the idea that “those in authority are always right, even when they are wrong.”

An authority figure made a mistake. You want OP to ignore this adult’s mistake and at the same time, accept the same adult scolding her child for an accident, because, by your own description, that is the culture.

I have never lived in Germany and am reluctant to take your word for it this this is a cultural issue. Because that’s actually really horrible.

Whether it is accurate or not, I hope you will examine your own willingness to accept this and your emotional response here to seeing what you consider the “norm” challenged.

@pixie5121 Actually, I feel foolish. Your posts have to be a windup. No one would seriously openly post telling someone to move if they didn’t like a culture, or suggesting that a parent not speaking the local language means they and their children don’t belong there or have less right to be treated fairly.

Just pay the money and refrain from further self-justifications when doing so.

Enough mountains have been made out of mole-hills here already.

Nope. He won't be labelled the difficult kid. He'll be labelled the kid with the difficult parent.

Lol. Have you not seen exactly this happen in the UK when anyone perceived as an immigrant (particularly recent immigrants but tbh also anyone 3rd+ generation when their skin colour suggests they come from somewhere else "originally")?

"If you don't like it go back where you came from!"

(There is also a serious, and much less xenophobic point, which I thought pixie5121 made pretty well: social interactions happen in a cultural context. It's worth all parties recognising that, rather than assuming the other person is just rude or ignorant or whatever.)

WibblyWobblyJane That is an attitude you often get in Germany towards "Auslanders", not from all Germans but definitely some. I'm ignoring that poster, if I wanted that level of conversation I would be on some Berlin advice FB group where such posters amuse themselves for hours berating strangers, or visiting my upstairs neighbour.

I have mostly learned to do exactly the right thing at all times so as not to come up against the utterly unbending nature of rules here (and to be fair because when you do follow the rules the system works), but when your child does the right thing and is still made to feel at fault I am not having it. She's a bully.

Thanks inertia that makes me feel like I'm not actually in the wrong here.

Nellwilsonswhitehair You are right, it is happening in a cultural context of rule following - ie bring in three euros and we will tick your name of the list. That's why it's so odd that she didn't take his money and made a mistake with a tick box - that literally never happens here, which makes me think she was bullying him by refusing to accept his money, perhaps because of the meeting earlier that morning about his friendship issues where I'd pointed out that perhaps she could be supporting him more instead of just telling him to "find some new friends" and leaving him to cry.

Being an expat is a minefield. We've had a few friends who are expats in Germany and have found it a very brutal place to have any kind of leaning difficulty. They can be very harsh with children and lots still see nothing wrong with physical punishment. Sorry OP, nothing but sympathy. I think you're going to have to stand up for your son lots more. I'd go back and say to her 'do you not believe in apologising when you make a mistake?'. If she'd said 'sorry I should have taken his money.' then you wouldn't care and just pay the money again. It's her almost revelling in him losing the money. It's not nice.

You are not paying twice, the first time it was not paid.

I find your flawed logic almost interesting, it really is bizarre that you think you shouldn’t pay because your son lost his money.

I find your flawed logic almost interesting, it really is bizarre that you think you shouldn’t pay because your son lost his money.

If you RTFT you'd see clear explanations why OP really didn't have to pay again (it's not a trip, it's a school fundraiser which OP contributed generously to in other ways) and why her logic isn't flawed - she's actually standing up for her son against a bullying teacher (TA).

Just because she suggests it comes out of your sons pocket money it doesn’t make it law. In this case I would just pay and not take it out of sons pocket money, I wouldn’t expect staff member to pay.

I agree it shouldn't come out if his pocket money. You, his mother should pay it.

She did. Teacher didn't take it. Teacher can't then ask for €3 that's only a contribution and not a charge for a trip etc.

I wouldn’t expect staff member to pay

Staff member doesn't have to pay. It's just a contribution to an overall 'pot'.

Panamii Yes it can be such a minefield - I am going to get a lot tougher with them. Being nice and accomodating doesn't get you far in this culture, I've realised.

It does feel like she was revelling in him losing the money. I've written to the teacher and emphasised that he needs support, kindness and not being singled out, and they can't ask for money again, it has to come through me. Haven't sent it yet but I'm keen to ensure his next teachers know I am going to advocate for him.

I think you are dead right. It is the culture there & you need to be assertive.

I remember my DSis had an issue with her DS while living there. He was being relentlessly pushed around & bullied at school. When she spoke to the teacher, they were genuinely amazed she felt it was an issue. They were very much 'oh let them sort it out, normal childhood stuff'. DN was coming home with injuries! They never did sort it out, they have moved home now & DN (who subsequently got a diagnosis of autism) refuses to ever mention living in Germany. Just wiped it from his memory.
(I should add that they had many positive experiences of living there too!)

You are being unreasonable expecting the teacher to pay. Your son lost the money - it's gone, so still needs to be paid. Why make such a fuss? Just pay it.

My son has similar lack of organisational skills. I have learned the hard way. What has worked for us over the years is, whether it is a £1 or £10 it goes in a plastic money bag and put into a small pocket in his school bag. Never in his pocket unless he is wearing PE uniform that has a zip. Every time he has money I say to him, hand it over to teacher immediately. If they don't take it then it goes straight back into small pocket. I find going through the scenarios help with disorganisation. Similar with school trips, put your jumper in your bag and zip it up. Another child wouldn't need to be told this but mine does!!
I think she was unfair though as it was similar to a school fete so the £3 in the grand scheme of things wouldn't matter as it was all food and drink donated by parents. If it was lost before going to school then, yes, it is different. However, it was a mistake on both sides so why not just give him a band? It would be different if it was a school trip where it was money for a bus or entrance fee.

She made a mistake but you still owe her the money. I wouldn't chasten your son for losing the money, but I'd make up the money on my own. Unfortunately it's just one of those things that happen.

Did you RTFT? Or even OP's posts?

This. Jeez stop being such a drama llama.

I wanted to add to my previous post, and to put a different spin on this idea of 'the difficult parent' which has been raised as if it's necessarily a negative thing.

As a parent of children with SEN, I firmly believe that within the context of SEN, there is no option but to become 'the difficult parent'.

'Difficult' not in the sense of obnoxious or outrightly rude and uncooperative, but in the sense of politely challenging, probing, chasing and following-up.

I am proudly a 'difficult parent', because I advocate for my SEN children (and help others to do the same) in a system that otherwise would not enable them to succeed.

Overall, and despite undoubtedly tense and uncomfortable moments, I have managed to have productive and cordial relations with all the school staff I deal with.

It's a professional partnership at the end of the day. We don't need to like each other, or be friends, but we do need to work together.

No, I'm saying this is how it is in Germany and other German-speaking countries. I didn't say I liked it, I said it's how it is. Why do people on here have such a problem with basic logic? It's baffling.

Why do you think she hasn’t read the thread?

A windup?

Only a complete idiot would think they can move to a different country with a different culture and impose their way of doing things.

If you move, it's on you to adapt to them. I'm aware this seems to be an insurmountable challenge for many Brits, but that doesn't make it any less true. I can't think of any country where people would take kindly to people lecturing them about how things are back home or how things should be.

I spent years living in Spain. I met SO many miserable Brits who just would not accept that they weren't in the UK anymore. They spent almost all their time moaning about everything to do with Spain - how inflexible the bureaucracy is, how poor the education system is...at the end of the day, it's just rude to move somewhere and then whinge endlessly about it and tell the locals how things should be. It's never going to win you any friends, is it?

I don't really like the German culture/attitude of rule following, so I don't live there.