To not lend ds savings?

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Ex gave ds money for Xmas and ds has saved it, and added to it by also saving all of his pocket money, so that he currently has a good amount saved. He has been considering spending some of it recently but so far hasn't.

Ds lives with me and sees ex once a month (exs choice) and I look after his savings for him.

Ex has just texted me asking lots of questions about ds savings, how much it is, is he saving for anything specific etc, and how much did he give ds for Xmas (I don't know - he also gave the other dc random amounts of money and just transferred a lump sum to me for them all which I shared out into their savings at the time but didn't keep any record of - I just keep each dc current total updated as the money sits in my account because they are too young to have their own yet)

He has then said he has received an unexpected utility bill and he has to borrow the money from ds but ds mustn't know about it. He says he can get the money from his own savings at the end of the month and will then pay ds back. He is demanding £150 tomorrow and says that it is his money because he gave it to ds and ds hasn't spent it.

I'm very reluctant to do this because
A) it is ds money and I don't think doing it behind his back is right
B) I don't have the money myself so if I lend it to ex and then ds wants to spend it he won't be able to until ex pays it back - which would be very unfair and basically penalising ds for having been sensible and saving his money
C) ex has form for being very unreliable re. Money. He was financially abusive while we were together and also borrowed thousands from my parents which he has never and will never pay back

Surely his utility company would be open to waiting until the end of the month for him to pay if he explains that he needs to give that much notice to withdraw the money from his savings account?

AIBU to not feel comfortable lending ds money in this way?

Just say no.

If he asks why you don’t have to answer. But you could say ‘you already have other outstanding debts you’ve made no effort to repay and I won’t be ‘lending’ anymore until that’s resolved, if ever’

Of course you shouldn’t give him the money back,

there’s something I don’t understand though.

you say your children’s savings are in your account because they don’t have one yet.

then you give this as one of the reasons why you can’t lend him the money

I don't have the money myself so if I lend it to ex and then ds wants to spend it he won't be able to until ex pays it back - which would be very unfair and basically penalising ds for having been sensible and saving his money

so, where are your children’s savings?

Please ignore my post, I saw your explanation above.

He was financially abusive while we were together
He's still financially abusive.
This is post-separation abuse.
He is boundary-testing you. Note his language around the money - he believes it is "his" because he gave it to DS & DS hasn't spent it!

and also borrowed thousands from my parents which he has never and will never pay back
And you need to ask whether it's ok to protect your son's money from similar predations?
Are you sure you are emotionally free of your ex yet? Because this is a no-brainer. Have you done The Freedom Programme?
www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/

How would you & DS feel, if you went along with this insanity, DS asled for his money, & you had to say "sorry, I colluded with your dad to take it behind your back, & he has spent it & you won't see it again, because that's what he's like, tough innit." ?
The time for that kind of conversation will come, when DS is old enough to be warned not to mix his careful savings attitude toward money with his dad's propensity to spend other people's ... but this is NOT the way he needs to find out that his dad is at best, rotten with money, & at worst, a thief.

Tell your ex to fuck off, because you are not going to expose your child to the same money thief who stole from your parents.

No, however you need to put the children's money into children's accounts to ensure you don't spend their money from your account. These types of account are available from birth so I don't know why you think they're not old enough. I'd be annoyed if I was the other parent and the money I'd intended for the kids was sat in your account, although personally I'd set up my own account for them. Tell him to do that.

Absolutely not and to be honest est I would even reply.

This

I'd be annoyed if I was the other parent and the money I'd intended for the kids was sat in your account, although personally I'd set up my own account for them. Tell him to do that.

OP has explained her process and how it works.

There's no reason for the other parent to be annoyed, as long as the DC can access the money when they need it

With regard to the other parent setting up an account, a financially abusive man like this would simply use the money. He might give it initially but would take it back pronto too.

It is not your money to lend to anyone, let alone someone who has proved unreliable as a borrower in the past.

Surely his utility company would be open to waiting until the end of the month for him to pay if he explains that he needs to give that much notice to withdraw the money from his savings account?

NO, OP. Give yourself a bloody good shake, & stop this line of thought.

Surely, his utility company & their unsettled account IS NOT YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM TO WORRY ABOUT. Your ex's saving account is not your problem. His unpaid bill is not your problem. Whether his utilities get cut off or not is not your problem.

When you respond to him, do NOT JADE (see link) & do NOT take responsibility upon yourself to solve his problem. It is not up to you to manage his fuck-up, it is not up to you to help him find solutions. I imagine you are very much still in the habit of doing so, because of your history with him, & this is why I asked about The Freedom Programme, above - you need to drop the rope with any worry about him or his money, for your own peace of mind.
outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/jade-dont-justify-argue-defend-explain

The only obligation you now hold toward this man is ensuring he does not rip you, or your DC, off ever again.

You might need to be blunt and tell your kid why it’s not smart to discuss finances with dad.

He was financially abusive while we were together and also borrowed thousands from my parents which he has never and will never pay back

So that's a no then ... hard to see why you're even asking TBH

having been very very low contact with ex for years I have recently went trying to be more open in communication for the sake of the children,

And look how he has repaid your kindness:
Ex has just texted me asking lots of questions about ds savings, how much it is, is he saving for anything specific etc, and how much did he give ds for Xmas

All this increased communication has done is open the doors for him to attempt to control & financially abuse you (& his DC!) again.
Did you answer his questions? Did you feel obliged to supply him with the information he wanted?

FFS you need to get yourself back to low contact asap.
He was "casing the joint" with those questions.
Next time - shut him down, & don't be afraid to be "rude" ie blunt, & no JADE - (justify, argue, defend, explain").
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock

but I still obviously have some issues in being confident and sure that my instincts and boundaries are correct.
Third time's the charm, so forgive me for banging on - get yourself booked onto The Freedom Programme!
The fact that you had to question yourself before realising how insane it would be to yield to his attempt to financially abuse your son is a concern - please get yourself onto a course (can do it online) & get your instincts bolstered by supportive, knowledgeable experts.

You don't deserve to live with anxiety about whether your instincts & boundaries are correct - the course will give you a wealth of information, but also access to emotional support from a like-minded community. xx

I know you've decided not to now, but don't say I won't give it without his permission as it sounds like the kind of person who would put pressure on his DC to give permission. Straight up answer is No.

Thank you, this is very helpful

Tell him no and open savings accounts in each child’s name. My DD has had a savings account since she was a few weeks old.

I've done the freedom programme. Maybe I should do it again.

Well obviously the answer to your Ex is a firm NO.

With reference to whether to open separate accounts for your DC, I agree with a pp that letting the DC have their own savings accounts is a bad idea with a father like theirs. However, my bank will let me open several savings accounts online, under different names, I would think yours would too.

So why not do this? Open a separate savings account for each DC online, which is linked to your current account and you can then keep a tally of what goes in and out, all controlled by you via online banking.

Absolutely not.

The utility company will wait, which makes me suspicious it’s something else anyway. But absolutely not either way.

These things are a lifelong journey so that’s a good idea, especially as you have to have some contact.

Might be a good idea to re-do it OP. You'll probably be amazed at how far you've come already, & you'll be able to reinforce those instincts & boundaries.

Consider how PP have responded. Those who have not experienced DA/financial abuse are pretty robust in their dismissiveness of your ex, aren't they? As in "no fucking way, you abject thief, are you getting your paws on the cash" robust.

Now have a think about how his questions were designed to manipulate you.
To get you nodding along with his narrative that yes, is terrible that he needs to pay a bill, yes, the money is just sitting there, yes, he obviously deserves the money, & of course you believe him that he'll pay his own son back ...

See?

This is why I urged you to go back to Low Contact.
To practice responses that do not JADE.
To learn the Grey Rock technique.

This man will use any opportunity you give him, any kindness you offer, to control you again. Remember that the abuse does not stop when the relationship ends. You need to channel your Mad-Eye Moody from Harry Potter -
"CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!"

You also need to remember that appeasing abusers with acts of kindness does not persuade them to be kindly back, or to become more like "us". They are not like "us", & they see kindness as a weakness to exploit. This man will never be the father you wish your DC could have, & you can never, ever, let your guard down around him.
It is also going to be up to you to protect the DC from his financial abuse as they get older. As PP suggested, as age-appropriate, along the lines of "dad loves you very much but he's rubbish with money, so we don't lend or borrow with dad".

So get those boundaries strengthened! Back on the course with you: it's not just about managing your awful ex, it's about getting YOU the confidence you deserve, & enriching your own life with it.

It's not your money to lend him. It is DS's. It's not his money to access, because it was a gift.

His utility bill is his problem. It remains his problem. It is most certainly not his son's. And asking you to be complicit in taking his son's money without his consent or knowledge - words fail me.

Time for him to grow up and face the financial consequences of his financial actions.

Definitely don't give him your child's money.

No is a full sentance.

This would be straight up stealing, you DS is the owner of that money and it was a gift so it is 100% his.

If you go behind his back you are explicite in the theft (you cannot form a contract to lend something that does not belong to you) and you will distroy trust with you DS.

Also the fact your ex stated that the money is his because it hasnt been spent and that he doesnt want DS to know indicates he has no intent of repaying it.