Page 40 | Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

gagablacksheep · 2022-06-11T21:31:44+00:00

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career. The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers. Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

catculture · 14/06/2022 19:55

TopGub - you have literally no idea what you're talking about. My husband is not British and you have no idea about his life or how he arrived in the U.K. Not so you have any idea about my background. Not everybody sees things though your narrow 50/50 lens. Why do you think everyone should feel the same as you? They don't. End of.

If I had my time again, genuinely I would make the same choices. I don't regret a day of it.

Topgub · 14/06/2022 19:59

@catculture

Excellent

Why are you so annoyed by my views then?

catculture · 14/06/2022 20:02

I'm telling you the reality how it is.

BadNomad · 14/06/2022 20:05

So none of us should be stay at home mothers because some women don’t like being stereotyped that way? Sorry, that’s not fair. It’s more sexist to say I shouldn’t be able to do something just because I’m a woman, than it is for a woman to choose being a SAHM

You can be a SAHM if that is what you want. You can be a SAHM if that is what works for your family. It is absolutely fine to model that as one option to your children. But when your son was pitying his friend with the working mum, by telling him how privileged he is to have a SAHM, you just confirmed that working mum = bad, SAHM = good.

To let them believe being a SAHM is the best thing for children is sexist and misogynistic because it will affect your daughter's options in life. It will affect her freedom. It will affect her choices. It will make her feel guilty if she does it differently. Why can you not teach them that there are other equally valid ways to raise a family? You don't have to work to teach them that. You can still be a SAHM to your children and teach them that they can have both careers and families. It doesn't have to be one or the other for women.

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:09

Topgub · 14/06/2022 19:46

@ForestFae

That's not my argument

Although thinking you're better suited to it because you're female is sexist

I’m better suited to it because of my personality and interests being female has nothing to do with it 🙄

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:11

BadNomad · 14/06/2022 20:05

So none of us should be stay at home mothers because some women don’t like being stereotyped that way? Sorry, that’s not fair. It’s more sexist to say I shouldn’t be able to do something just because I’m a woman, than it is for a woman to choose being a SAHM

You can be a SAHM if that is what you want. You can be a SAHM if that is what works for your family. It is absolutely fine to model that as one option to your children. But when your son was pitying his friend with the working mum, by telling him how privileged he is to have a SAHM, you just confirmed that working mum = bad, SAHM = good.

To let them believe being a SAHM is the best thing for children is sexist and misogynistic because it will affect your daughter's options in life. It will affect her freedom. It will affect her choices. It will make her feel guilty if she does it differently. Why can you not teach them that there are other equally valid ways to raise a family? You don't have to work to teach them that. You can still be a SAHM to your children and teach them that they can have both careers and families. It doesn't have to be one or the other for women.

I’ve said he’s lucky to have a family where we can afford for me to stay home. Not that it’s some sort of terrible thing to have working parents.

ive never said to my kids that they have to do the same either. As I’ve said about 5 times, I don’t think it matters which gender is the SAHP.

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:12

@catculture

I dont understand what you mean.

You made the right choices for you. Why do you care if I know how it is?

Its not like its going to change my mind

Wheretheskyisblue · 14/06/2022 20:13

'Most people earning lots of money will be paying a lot of tax (tax evader/ avoiders excluded). So it’s not entirely accurate to say it only benefits their family'

LSE research has shown that a large proportion of UK high earners actually pay a lower rate of tax than lower earners due to all the tax reliefs available and one in ten people earning over £1m paid just 11% tax.

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:13

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:12

@catculture

I dont understand what you mean.

You made the right choices for you. Why do you care if I know how it is?

Its not like its going to change my mind

You’re just exposing how narrow minded you are.

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:15

@ForestFae

Are you going to change your mind?

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:16

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:15

@ForestFae

Are you going to change your mind?

The difference is I don’t think other peoples set ups are sexist or that there’s only one way to do it. Do I think kids benefit from a parent at home? Yes. But it doesn’t have to be the woman if the couple don’t want it.

meanwhile you think your way is the only objective correct way. 🙄

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:18

@ForestFae

Are you going to change your mind that 1 parent at home is the ideal?

Or that a parent at home is the ideal rather than none?

TruthHertz · 14/06/2022 20:19

adlitem · 14/06/2022 19:30

Yep me too! I’ve had lots of professional achievements without much comment. Family achievements (engagement, marrriage, babies, children’s achievements) get loads.

Show quote history

Because career stuff is boring as fuck tbh. Most people do it as a means to an end, unlike marriage which most would do even after winning the lottery.

adlitem · 14/06/2022 20:19

Wheretheskyisblue · 14/06/2022 20:13

'Most people earning lots of money will be paying a lot of tax (tax evader/ avoiders excluded). So it’s not entirely accurate to say it only benefits their family'

LSE research has shown that a large proportion of UK high earners actually pay a lower rate of tax than lower earners due to all the tax reliefs available and one in ten people earning over £1m paid just 11% tax.

They may pay a lower percentage but they add a lot to the pot because their wage is higher.

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:19

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:18

@ForestFae

Are you going to change your mind that 1 parent at home is the ideal?

Or that a parent at home is the ideal rather than none?

Not without evidence. Meanwhile you’ve just consistently spouted your opinion as fact, with no evidence

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:20

TruthHertz · 14/06/2022 20:19

Because career stuff is boring as fuck tbh. Most people do it as a means to an end, unlike marriage which most would do even after winning the lottery.

Show quote history

It’s only on MN people are this fanatical about work - in real life, no one loves their careers and jobs this much lmao.

catculture · 14/06/2022 20:21

Don't do the faux naive questions now TopGub. You are on just about every SAHM thread and any thread about 'high earners. ' same old same old. I've seen you often enough in recent weeks. Usually I don't bother coming on, but today I'm home alone so I got involved. It's fascinating that there are people out there who put value on certain roles and think their 50/50 family style is one we should all aspire to. I don't come across such rigid people in real life so it's quite interesting.

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:21

@ForestFae

How awful narrow minded of you.

BadNomad · 14/06/2022 20:22

I’ve said he’s lucky to have a family where we can afford for me to stay home. Not that it’s some sort of terrible thing to have working parents.

ive never said to my kids that they have to do the same either. As I’ve said about 5 times, I don’t think it matters which gender is the SAHP.

You may not have said it, but it's what they think. Why else would your son feel sad for someone for not having a SAHM/SAHP? You feel sad for someone when you think they are worse off than you. i.e. having working parents is worse than having a STAHP. Therefore, that belief is going to affect their future freedom and choices. Especially your daughter's.

Most people's kids don't give a shiny shit if their friends' parents work or at home. They don't see either as good or bad. Yours do.

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:23

catculture · 14/06/2022 20:21

Don't do the faux naive questions now TopGub. You are on just about every SAHM thread and any thread about 'high earners. ' same old same old. I've seen you often enough in recent weeks. Usually I don't bother coming on, but today I'm home alone so I got involved. It's fascinating that there are people out there who put value on certain roles and think their 50/50 family style is one we should all aspire to. I don't come across such rigid people in real life so it's quite interesting.

She’s on every single one lol. It’s transparent and it’s also really fucking weird. I comment on SAHM threads because I am one. I don’t go onto threads about career women and do the equivalent. Odd.

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:23

@catculture

What does my posting history have to do with anything? I think I've posted on 1 higher earner thread and maybe 2 about sahm?

I'm new to mn

Is there a must post on very wide variety of posts rule I'm unaware of?

TruthHertz · 14/06/2022 20:23

It’s only on MN people are this fanatical about work - in real life, no one loves their careers and jobs this much lmao.

Indeed. It seems like most men just do it for the money, whilst lots of women seem to do it to compete with the men. It's evident in all this talk about how the man gets the 'privilege' of continuing to work when the women goes part time to look after the kids.

Meanwhile, many successful men dream of retiring at 40 and not working.

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:24

@ForestFae

This thread is about careers

ForestFae · 14/06/2022 20:24

BadNomad · 14/06/2022 20:22

I’ve said he’s lucky to have a family where we can afford for me to stay home. Not that it’s some sort of terrible thing to have working parents.

ive never said to my kids that they have to do the same either. As I’ve said about 5 times, I don’t think it matters which gender is the SAHP.

You may not have said it, but it's what they think. Why else would your son feel sad for someone for not having a SAHM/SAHP? You feel sad for someone when you think they are worse off than you. i.e. having working parents is worse than having a STAHP. Therefore, that belief is going to affect their future freedom and choices. Especially your daughter's.

Most people's kids don't give a shiny shit if their friends' parents work or at home. They don't see either as good or bad. Yours do.

Because he obviously values having me around, and feels sorry for people who don’t have that because he sees it as something positive in his life.🤷🏻‍♀️

Topgub · 14/06/2022 20:25

@TruthHertz

What successful men retire at 40?!