Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

No one really knows how good a job parents have done until their children become adults, and until then bringing up children is just a bog standard thing.

Having a successful career takes a lot of hard work and it means achieving a standard that not everyone can. It’s ok for having a successful career to be seen as a much higher achievement than conceiving a child.

Raising kids well should be the norm, and not seen as a specific achievement.

Having sperm fertilise an egg is not an achievement

Raising a child you created is a legal and moral responsibility that only benefits you. Nobody else

Whereas an actual career usually benefits many and takes actual sacrifice and work.

I would absolutly say that a lot of careers are a much larger achievement than having kids

As pps said, having and raising children is not exceptional.

It is wonderful though. Maybe we should be making a bigger deal in general of wonderful things that aren't exceptional? I dunno.

It's way harder than any career. As it is, I am a working mum and consequently shit at both my career and motherhood. Ho hum...i need the money.

This is why the whole trans tights thing matters to us all. Because if there isn't a word that describes the people that give birth, are massively pressured into being the ones who care for the children that two people made, and are vulnerable in all sorts of other ways from puberty onwards, we can't protest, can't protect ourselves. We are literally and figuratively fucked.

My parents weren’t great. Everything that I have achieved is down to me, not my parents.
They don’t get a pat on the back.

Because billions do it.

There are millions more parents than (say) architects or surgeons or any other specialist role.

There are millions more parents than teachers or nurses, or cleaners.

I’ve read the ’thankless’ thing on MN many times and everytime all I can think is:
”Who is supposed to be thanking you and for what”?

I get this sounds crass, but sewer rats procreate, it’s not a achievement.

I do agree with PP, that if you manage to send in the world good people then that’s good, but once again I don’t understan why we would have to be thanking you.

I think parents get too much pandering, childfree could get somw of that attention and care.

Because having a successful career, in the vast majority of cases, means actually being good at something. Being a parent means no such thing - unless you're abusive to the point that your children are likely to die, you'll be allowed to be a parent (and, judging on recent news, even then, many are able to continue parenting).

It's not to say that being a good parent isn't hard work. It's just that being a parent doesn't mean being a good parent because we have no actual testing or checks or assessment or review to determine that you're doing it well. Having a career (and not just a "job", but a career) almost always does mean you're doing it well because there's feedback, progression, assessment and appraisals - not everyone is able to do it and if you do it badly, it'll be removed.

Some of us are made to feel second rate for having a career and not having children.

“Raising a child you created is a legal and moral responsibility that only benefits you. Nobody else”

but raising children well, or not, does affect society. A well raised child is more likely to be a positive member of society and vice versus.

im not saying we should thank all parents doing a good job. Just pointing out that “parenting” does have a massive impact on society in general.

I have 3 children and a successful career. I don't consider my children an achievement but I do consider my career as an achievement. I've worked hard to progress in my career but having children is just something I've done in my life like having a long marriage which is also not an achievement.

You're supposed to have both at the same time or you're a failure and aren't contributing sufficiently to society.

I don’t think having children merits thanks from society. We don’t have children to benefit society, we have them to please ourselves. It would arguably be of more benefit to society if we didn’t have them.

Having children isn’t an achievement, it’s a biological action. Like having a poo.

I think it's only here on MN that people are very career focused.

I'm far prouder of my DC and grandkids than anything I've ever acheived at work. I work because I have to, nothing more. It pays the bills. When you read the headstones in a cemetery, they rarely read "brilliant admin assistant" or "top notch engineer", they read "beloved mum/dad/sister/aunt" etc.

Are you giving your Mom thanks everyday? The same thought process your experiencing, is your Mom a factor in it?

Well it’s true but the reward from having kids is the kids themselves, not people patting you on the back for it. try not to worry about people’s opinions of you

It's not an achievement but it should be respected, some people see it as an unimportant role.

The ladies who do both definitely deserve a big pat on the back. 👏

Motherhood and Procreating is very very very celebrated in modern European culture. ‘The Mother’ is considered the norm and desirable.

Women who live outside this norm - through choice or circumstance - are treated as anomalies

Pat on the back from who?

It is nothing special because for others who have had children, it is been there done that. It is nothing special, it gets easier with time and with each subsequent child.

You ought to get over it. You also don't take credit for your children's successes. They did not ask to be born.

Having a child is quite a selfish and narcissistic act on the most part so I don’t understand why praise from wider society should be a thing?

I've been struggling with secondary infertility for years. I have been putting my all in to trying to make a healthy baby. My career has taken a back seat because of it. So for me, having a baby would be a huge achievement. Isn't it something like 10% of people struggle conceive? I don't need any congratulations though, if I do get there. Thinking about it, people do say nice things about my dd, so that is complimenting me and dh I suppose.

Having a family is a choice, as is having a career versus a job. It's personal. Each to their own.