Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

No. Splitting everything 50/50 is not ideal for everyone, not everyone wants that. Stop thinking your way is ideal for everyone.

Because I think in many cases, including mine, the parents are better suited to meet the kids needs than a third party. Child to adult ratios, for one, are often better with parents

I do agree that in some cases, particularly where SEN are involved, a child might benefit from the level of attention that a parent can offer that a teacher in mainstream education clearly can't. It makes sense for parents in those situations to choose home education, and I support their right to do that.

For most kids, though, I think the benefits of being educated by people other than their parents far outweighs any extra attention that they would get at home. My dd has got far more from the school environment than I could ever have hoped to offer her as a home educator. The relationships with her teachers, the daily interaction with her peers, the facilities and educational opportunities...I could never have recreated that range or variety, and the exposure that dd has had at school has been crucial to her personal development.

So if I was a man, it would be okay if I want to be a sahp? But because I happen to be born a woman it’s a problem?

Dc 2 and 3 used fo go to sleep at 5.30 for years. I’d have barely been able to fit anything into that evening with them!

No, I don't think so.

Of course, the quality of the SAHP and the quality of the childcare are both important, but I don't think one is inherently better than the other.

@ForestFae

No.

It is the ideal

Why else would you want both of you at home if you could?

i think a lot of teachers reinforce the system I fundamentally disagree with, as does school. I don’t agree with the way kids are taught and I don’t agree with segregating and isolating by age group.

see? You’re narrow minded.

Because both of us think family time is better than work.

@ForestFae

Having an ideal isn't narrow minded

Are you narrow minded in your ideals?

I dont like many aspects of society either but unfortunately you can't live in it and opt out of it. Which is why it is important to teach your children about all their options and to have an open mind. Isolating them and giving them narrow minds will only do THEM harm in life.

You’re narrow minded in thinking your way is ideal in every single circumstance, for everyone. It is not ideal for me. I would hate to work even part time

@ForestFae

Lacking balance isn't good. For adults or kids

completely disagree, and I’d go s far as to say I have a duty to raise my kids away from things that are harmful. “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society”

Balance doesn’t mean everyone does every single task in a 50/50 split. What is good is what set up suits their family - I would hate your lifestyle for example, and you’d probably hate mine.

Would you recognise if you are the thing harming them?

having an alternative lifestyle is not harming them.

I get that, and I respect the fact that different people have different preferences. If you can afford not to work, I think it's a perfectly valid choice to be a SAHP.

However, you have previously made it clear that your DH doesn't love to work either. He would prefer to spend all of his time with his family. Do you not ever feel a little bit selfish for not sharing what you see as the burden of work more equally between you? Wouldn't it make more sense for you to both work part time if neither of you want to work but financially you need to do so. It would be different if your DH got satisfaction from his job, but you have previously indicated that he doesn't, so he seems to have got the thin end of the wedge. Don't you feel a little guilty?

Yes. But I also don’t blame parents if their adult children are vile.

TopGub - you do realise that not all jobs are flexible. It's all very well to talk about working equal hours, but if one person earns a certain salary and the other one makes it loses many multiples of your salary on the markets of whatever before he's even has his coffee in the morning, then you're hardly going to be saying, "Sorry darling, you need to be here at 5pm to make them dinner because ransoms on MN do shifts and work around each other." It simply doesn't work like that. My salary was irrelevant to my husband. He doesn't care about that. He never worked fixed hooted and there was no pattern. He has always worked evenings. He was rarely not working to be honest because heezsekf-employed do there's no switch off. If I had wanted "help" with the kids I would get a part-time nanny and there were times I did consider this. But I couldn't be bothered as it's just another person to factor in and it's easier to just get on with it.

This whole debate is ridiculous

You’re not getting a Parent of the Year award cause you’re SAHP. Neither you get one for being a working parent.

Ive done the job of SAHP for other people’s kids (live in nanny). I’ve been there every step of the way - teaching them how to read, write, cooking every meal, taking them for walks, play dates, doing their laundry, dropping them to school etc.

I’d NEVER say I parented those kids. Their parents did - even though they only seen them few hrs during the weekdays.

What I’m getting at is that you can be a fantastic working parent and your kids are learning the exact same things about the world, whether is you who’s doing the teaching/cooking/cleaning or anyone else.

Why are these threads usually come down to the SAHP low key insinuating their parenting is somehow superior. It REALLY isn’t, I’m sorry.

As long as your kids feel loved, supported and taken care of, you’re getting it right.

Hours not 'hooted!"

@ForestFae That’s all and well and good if they also choose to share your beliefs as adults and eschew society (other than by finding a spouse who is prepared to work so that they don’t have to), but what if they actually want to be part of it? I’m no huge believer in the merits of capitalism but you need to know how it works. Shielding your kids from the world that exists in favour of one that you wish existed isn’t the benevolence you think it is.

And yes, there’s a middle ground. Plenty of people live off the land, make their own clothes, generate their own electricity etc. whilst also participating in modern society.

We’ve actually talked about this - I’ve said to him to drop a day and for us to do without the money, we could, but he won’t as despite him not really liking it, he wants to earn a certain amount of money as he wants to ensure we can continue to fund home educating the kids for as long as necessary and he thinks it would harm his prospects for promotion if he were to go part time. He also thinks I am better with the kids than he is (which I’m sure would bother some posters here, and in my opinion he is very good with them) and he doesn’t want me having to sacrifice any time with them especially if it’s not something I’m passionate about and not what I really want.

So I don’t feel guilty as we’ve talked about it and he agrees that this is the best way forward. I’d love him not to have to work though - I don’t like the days he works outside the home and I miss him dearly (which again I’m sure some posters will think is sad but whatever!)

It is if it's the only one they know.

You don't protect children by hiding them from a world you hate. You don't help them by making them fear or hate it too. You protect and help them by giving them the knowledge and tools to survive in it.

There is indeed a middle ground, I’d say my dad is in that camp - he generates solar energy on his house, he cares about the environment and recycles, enjoys the rural life..he was also a high flying career man pre retirement and is a lot less anti authority/anti capitalist than I am. So I’m well aware they exist.

My kids do know how it works. They’re not locked in an attic lol.