Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

I think kids are generally better off with a parent at home. I don’t actually think it matters which one.

@ForestFae

But thats not what you're modelling.

You're modeling mum at home, dad at work.

And the message is being received loud and clear

If I think about it, I suppose I always instinctively felt that if and when I had children, I would want to be home with them. Perhaps women gravitate to husbands / wives who complement them? I don't know. Luckily, we are all different. The 50/50 type set-up that gets espoused on here is fine I suppose, but sounds a bit 'meh' to me. It wouldn't work in our marriage because if the type of people we are.

@catculture

Yeah.

Equality and men taking an equal role in the care of their children (that you've spent pages arguing is vital) is totally meh.

"I wouldnt be with someone who wanted that kind of career"

Oh, yes, sorry I forgot. Any finance-related jobs must also NOT BE VALUED.

So it’s okay for dad to be at home and mum to be at work? Why? Why should I have to do something I don’t want to do just because I’m a woman? THAT is sexist.

I think this is it - people gravitate towards similar people. DH and I both strongly feel a SAHP is beneficial for our children. Someone earlier said they feel sorry for my DSs future wives if my DSs feel the same way - but if they do, surely they’d be likely to marry women (or men) who felt the same way. People talk about this stuff before they marry and have kids! You’re not obligated to marry someone with different values to you.

I didn’t want to be apart from my DC either. It felt natural to me to be with them. And I love our set up and so do the DC. If anyone has a problem with that, well that’s not my problem to be honest.

@ForestFae

No it isn't

You dont have to do anything

Bit being a sahm is promoting inequality and reinforcing the sexist status quo to kids

You can faff around and keep tabs on doing equal amounts of 'childcare' and washing up or whatever. Doesn't mean you have equality. Equality is about how you relate to each other. It's mutual respect.

'Bit being a sahm is promoting inequality and reinforcing the sexist status quo to kids'

Yawn.

So you think a woman choosing to be a SAHM is sexist? So much for caring about what women actually want then.

EXACTLY. I’d hate to live in a house where everyone keeps a tally on how many hours of x job someone’s done. Must be a fucking nightmare.

@ForestFae

You seem really annoyed by something that isn't your problem

I have a successful career - and I have to say I've never got more praise/congratulations as when I got engaged and married. I was quite shocked by it - people seemed to care a lot more about that than all my career achievements.

I'm pregnant at the moment, so not sure what the reaction will be, but again people have cared a lot more about my pregnancy announcement than anything career related (and I have had books published in multiple countries, plus a creative full time job, so relatively successful).

I have no idea why - but it hasn't been my experience that people value career achievements over kids.

If I'd had a job on top of 4 kids and a husband like the one I have, I would not be more 'equal' or feel more 'valued' I can assure you if that. I'd be totally knackered, stressed and probably divorced!

I’d hate it, honestly. The thought of leaving my kids and me being miles away, unable to get to them I they needed me, leaves me cold. It makes me feel physically ill.

im not saying everyone feels that way. But I do. I would be utterly miserable

So you think a woman choosing to be a SAHM is sexist? So much for caring about what women actually want then.

Everyone should want to do the best by their children right? So is it really a choice if you've been raised to believe the best way to do that is to be at home? That is an expectation, not a choice.

Teaching people that they're not doing the best by their children if they work IS sexist and misogynistic. That is why some women feel guilty because they have to work. Men don't. There isn't that expectation for men.

To be fare investment banking/stockbroker type jobs are the epitome of the greed and corruption that has poisoned western society and is steering the planet towards a complete ecological breakdown. The sooner those jobs are viewed as valueless the better.

What happens when your kids grow up? Since you live rurally, its quite likely they will not live in the same place; perhaps different countries. They may see you quite rarely; maybe even once or twice a year. How would you occupy your days?

Why would you want little kids thinking of careers?! This just sounds like indoctrination into the status quo tbh.

Why wouldn't you want young children thinking about careers? It's not like we make them choose a career at age 5! It's about wider careers education.

The vast, vast majority of people will need a job when they're older. Not everyone is privileged enough to be financially dependent on someone else.
Having a job you enjoy makes life easier.

Careers education can challenge stereotypes and the earlier we do this the more effective it is as all the evidence shows that young people start to develop stereotypical views on gender from a very young age and this has an impact on education and career choices.

Careers education is important in promoting social mobility and raising aspirations. Again, the earlier we start this the more effective it is.

Yeah women and men can both be sexist or but into gender stereotyping (as indicated on this thread probably due to seeing it modelled at home), so it’s unsurprising they find someone with shared values.

the poster who said there would soon enough be an insinuation that WP aren’t as good parents came quickly when it transpired that it is assumed the only part of parenting they do is earning money and bath dinner and bed. Despite being told otherwise. Repeatedly.

Incidentally my kids don’t go to bed at 5:30, but they do wake up then. I am also not miles from them, I wfh about half a mile from their school. Because I have a decent career and am now relatively senior I could pick a job that allows me flexibility to arrange my own workload so I do almost all school runs too. Maybe sahps have to justify their own use through their perception of the wp’s parenting inadequacy (based on the parenting of their hard working but absent fathers and husbands). Then they can, like PP’s son, simultaneously pity us and justify their own value.

I disagree that it’s inherently misogynistic for a mother to feel that it’s optimal for her to be with her kids. That’s nonsense.

As for SAHMs being a bad role model for girls - one if the reasons I facilitated my husband's career when it was taking off was because it meant we could afford for my girls can attend one of the top schools in London. My girls are equipped with the skills and confidence to do whatever they want in life. If they are bankers - that's up to them. If they are a SAHM - that's also up to them. I want them to have the choice - this is the important thing.

Our eldest is 19 and has been working overseas for 6 months on his gap year before he starts at Oxford uni in Sept. I could not have home educated (hats off to anyone who can)! but I have put a lot into my kids education. This is massively important to DH and I and it's a large part of why we have organised ourselves the way we have.

@catculture

I bet you all that money all you've taught your dd is to bag a rich husband and be a sahm

Should have saved your money

this will still have modelled that the “optimal” arrangement at you yourself put it is for mums to stay home. Perhaps the influences they get outside the home will counteract that, perhaps not.