Having children isn't viewed as an achievement, the same way having a successful career is

[gagablacksheep]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

Having children is the hardest thing I've ever done, yet, I feel like, as the majority of people have children- it's nothing ' special ' that you get any kind of pat on the back for, in the same way you would - if, say you had a very successful career.

The kind of social standing that comes with being very successful career wise, just isn't the same, as being a mum. Most people can be ' a mum ', but most people can't have very successful careers.

Is it just me, or is being a mum just a bog standard thing, that seems a bit 'thankless' in the eyes of society ? Sorry if I've not explained my feeling and thoughts very well.

My children are adults and I'm retired from a successful career, so my perspective is from 'looking back'.

As others have said, having a child isn't an achievement in and of itself. Raising children who are principled and successful in their own right is an achievement, but it is the work of many people so not our (DH and my) 'achievement' alone. Family members, teachers, DC's friend's parents, coaches, childcare providers as well as many other good people, including in the media who make positive content for children, contributed to my children's having grown into good people.

Looking back I can see the many people who were good influences on them. Do I think we did a 'good job' raising them? Sure I do and I take pride in many of our parenting decisions (others, not so much) but I can't take all the credit.

My career, on the other hand, was mostly me. I didn't get a 'leg up' from anyone nor was I ever given special treatment. My promotions were hard worked for and hard earned. So my career I see as 'my' achievement.

I think it's really sad that people are saying having DC isn't an achievement (if you're doing a decent job)

Parents, let's face it usually mothers, sacrifice so much. So so much. To raise well rounded and confident, happy and kind individuals is huge. We need people in the world to do all these special careers.

But yea, not an achievement. No surprise there really though, since it's 'woman's work' so naturally just wouldn't be recognised anyway

Depends how successful the children are, not just financially, but in terms of their relationships and ability to be good people

It isn't an achievement though. Its fulfilling one of the purposes of the body. Billions of animals have and raise offspring every year. Its hugely unremarkable to most people. Special to you individually but unremarkable in general. And anybody can be a parent, there's no status to achieve before you can be one, the most stupid, vile, ignorant and neglectful of people can do it.

If you raise your children to be successful, independent, decent adults you've done your job well and thus achieved something.

I just did a search and the word women was used 8 times - (twice by me) in the first 100 posts and zero time in the next 100.

Millennials need (real, woman-centred) feminism even more than Gen X did. You're all still living the lives that we were, were women are fundamentally responsible for 90% (more!) of the shitwork. Wake up!

Also, when kids turn out well it's attributed to good parenting.
When kids turn out less well, they've gotten in with the wrong crowd, been influenced by friends, drugs, boredom etc.

So can we not logically say that kids turning out well should be attributed to multiple different environments and people too?

Yes, I've been a sahm, single mum with a job, full time working mum and part time working mum. And hands down the hardest, least admired, most thankless time was when I was a sahm. I remember my first week working after a decade of being a sahm - felt like a holiday.

Having said that, I wouldn't have swapped it. I love raising my amazing kids and being able to do lots of things with them, teach them stuff, take them places, play with them, take them to their sports and hobbies, watch them grow, feed them nutritious food. Just wished that society and my ex also appreciated it more for the dedication and hard work that it took.

When I was growing up I remember people saying my uncles were great with children if they did anything with them. The mothers didn't get the same praise. If my late dh changed a nappy, my inlaws thought it was fantastic.
If a woman left her kids and the dad brought them up, people would think he was wonderful. Single mums of course are more likely to be viewed differently. So I think parenting can be seen as an achievement if done by a man.
Personally if I have a good relationship with my kids when they're adults that'll be recognition enough for me. I don't need it from others.
If someone has a crap childhood and does better by their own kids, that takes effort and is an achievement in my eyes.

At least @Vecna gets it

I don’t think I’m a failure because I haven’t given birth to and raised a child.

I wouldn't be proud of someone for having sex and then raising the children they decided to have.

Wow this has resonated with me. I gave up my career (university lecturer; 7 years academic training plus real world experience of ten years). Now, I'm looking at doing office temp work. Was it worth giving up the last nine years caring for my kids? Mmm jury is still out. Of course, I'll never regret the time I devoted to my babies...but I wish I had managed to juggle both childcare and career much better. Good luck OP.

Well, to be blunt, a 16yo chav can manage to have a child. Sometimes even by mistake. The same can't be said of a high powered career.

Also don't understand the 'thankless' comment. Presumably, you're not having kids as an altruistic favour to the world or some kind of self sacrifice. There are far too many humans on this planet already so I don't see why people should be thanking you.

I admire people who are good parents and see it as an achievement. I admire people who have a successful career or do a worthwhile job if they are a decent person with it. I can think of a few successful politicians home and abroad who I don't admire at all.

I would also say society has tons of recognition and support for parents, more than I think it should.

@greenvelvetcouch more than you think it should? How do you mean?

Yep, raising a child as well as you can with the available emotional, financial and a bucket load of skills that noone warns you about deserves a bloody damehood. Frankly, it is the hardest (but most rewarding) job in the world. I'm talking from being a successful educated professional...it's bloody hard ... can't imagine how hard it must be for those that don't have an education to fall back on. But...yep...my kids are both our (hubby and me) greatest achievements. Nothing else comes close.

@greenvelvetcouch I find the notion that society should be less supportive to parents quite bizarre, to be honest.

True that careers are more valued than motherhood.

But that's not news

Quite. People have children because they want to - it's a selfish decision at its core. No one needs to be thanked for that, especially in a world of climate crisis, food shortages, and overpopulation.

Yes it is selfish in many ways to become a parent. But in answer to whether you are more valued as a parent or within a career... I'm saddened to say that as a parent I was ignored, but pre kids in my career...I was valued. Honestly, men don't seem to go through the same dilemma...and are just as valued post baby...more so than us mamas 😢

I’m 6 months pregnant and I honestly can’t believe how much stuff I get just for being pregnant/will get for having a child. I actually find it quite overwhelming. Not to derail the thread completely, but the NHS time (including all the dental benefits etc.), the maternity leave, the child benefit I’ll receive, the nursery hours and then just the way society now treats me for just being pregnant! It has really surprised me. I feel like all of society is aimed at parents in a lot of ways.

Comparing becoming a parent to when my best friend was caring for her terminally ill Mum for 18 months - putting her career and life on hold and saving the NHS and social care a lot of money - I have had endless support and she had almost nothing. Attendance allowance vs. the benefits parents get is crazy to me. And she had very little admiration for what she was doing during that time, whereas I really do feel there’s plenty of recognition for parenthood.

No, I think it's the exact opposite!

Everyone fawns over pregnant women and parents and their offspring. Nobody really gives a shit about if you got a promotion. I don't think I've ever got as much as a card for career successes.

As for social standing, are you kidding? Children seem to be the ultimate status symbol. I've had people basically say to my face that my life is pointless because I don't have children and express shock and horror that I don't really want any. Things are changing but I still think a 40-year-old mother of two with a basic admin job is better regarded than a 40-year-old single woman on six figures.

@pixie5121 completely agree with you!!!

No one has ever celebrated me more than now when I’m pregnant, despite having a very good career I’ve worked hard for, a degree and an MA in a very niche field which was incredibly hard to get on to. Interestingly, despite some of the comments on this thread, my husband feels the same!