So sick of walking on eggshells but can't deal with the fall-out if I don't. Advice please!

[DWofMN]

I'm using DH's account, I'm not a MNer so please forgive me if I mess up the terminology - and apologies that this is long.

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS.

There are a few incidents playing on my mind and I don't know how to handle them:

DH and I are moving house to a new location, just over two hours from where we live. DM messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that DSis was going on holiday to "nearby" the new house and, because DSis wanted to do an "adult only" activity with her DH, they had asked DM to come along and babysit DN. DM suggested we take this opportunity to show her our new house (I don't see why she needs to see it tbh) and I said I'd speak to the agent. The agent said it basically depends how busy they are - the owners won't allow us to just have free access to the house (it's vacant) which is fair enough so the agent said he'd do a viewing for DM if he has a slot available on the day but that he'd be prioritising people viewing properties who are actually going to purchase them (which is also fair enough). It also tied in well because I'm in my third trimester now and DSis still has my 0+ baby seat from when DN was little - and I need it back. So, I could tie in getting that back from her, I asked her to take it with her so I could get it back and she said she would. I've been anxious to get it back because DSis isn't the most reliable and I'm worried it'll be broken or missing parts and I need to know ASAP because it's part of our whole travel system.

On the day, the agent said that, unfortunately, he's fully booked up and there's no way he can do a viewing of the house for DM but that the vendors have said they have no problem with us going onto the property to look at the gardens and things - and we could also show DM the local area. I relayed this to DM, who was annoyed but ok, and I suggested we do an activity that's right next to the house that DS and DN would enjoy - DM agreed and we said what our ETA was and I sent a link and Google Maps location for the activity. When we arrived, about two hours later, there was no sign of DM and a few minutes later, DH got a text from DM that said "that's too far away..." (even though it's right next to the house she wanted to go and see) so DH replied asking her what she'd like to do. She replied "well, you could suggest somewhere closer for a start" - we don't know where she even is, all she's said to us is that she's staying "nearby the new house" (which was the entire reason she wanted us to book the viewing). She sent us her location, which was almost an hour away (and, by this point, we'd left the house three hours earlier, with a toddler and me being sick the whole time). DH drove the extra hour down and we met DM, DF and DN. DM was in a bad mood the whole time and told us she couldn't stay long (we met at a pub) because they needed to check out by 4pm (it was now gone 2pm) which I thought was odd because they were staying with DSis on her holiday so didn't need to "check out" but whatever. So, at 3.30pm DM went to the bathroom, I checked the time and said to DF we'd better head off to check out - at which point he said there's no rush because there's no check-out time. He said that just as DM reappeared, and she then had a big strop because she'd clearly been caught in a lie and just didn't want to spend any time with me. DF then wanted DH to help with lifting luggage so we went back to their accommodation to help, DSis came back at that point and said that she hadn't brought the car seat because she couldn't fit it in the car... So, I'd spent a day of my bank holiday driving for almost 8 hours to sit with my mum for 2 hours whilst she sulked, have DH sent rude text messages and not get my car seat back! It feels like I did nothing but try to appease her (by trying to get the viewing, by driving the extra hour to her, by pretending to accept she never said they had to check-out, by DH helping them pack, by not responding in kind to her rude messages etc) and all I got in return was her showing that she doesn't care at all.

DS has a birthday coming up and, because people insist on buying huge plastic toys that we have no space for despite us asking multiple times for them not to, we made an online list of gifts we think DS would like that are either activities or very small (a range of prices and no pressure to get anything). The online list is like a wedding gift registry where people say what they've bought so you don't end up with duplicates. For previous birthdays/Christmases, people have asked us for gift ideas and, regardless of what we suggest and even when we say "anything that isn't huge because we have no space", certain relatives insist on purchasing the biggest imaginable toys. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. One of DS's relatives purchased an activity gift from the list to take him to do. The next day, I got an irate message from DM asking why it's no longer available because she wanted to do that one. I asked around and found out, but explained to DM that DS would definitely enjoy doing the activity more than once so she can do it too if she likes - but she said no, she didn't want to do what someone else was doing. So, I had to ask the relative to give that up so DM could do it. Then, on a video call to DM later that day, DS showed her his new toy that he loves that he'd seen whilst we were out shopping (a small toy about £7). DM then got upset because she'd bought him the exact same toy for his birthday (how were we supposed to know that?) and couldn't return it because she'd bought it many months ago. I resolved that by saying we could return the one she has (still in packaging) as if it's the one we bought (they're identical and bought from the same store) and that DS can have the one he currently has a birthday gift from her - so she eventually, and grumpily, accepted that solution.

Then, last night, DM sent a link to our group chat to a holiday home booked for 2 days after my due date this summer. It's five hours drive from where I live, and mine and DH's share would be almost £1000 just for the house. The message accompanying the link said it was so that we could now go on the holiday. DM has been trying to book a family holiday abroad but we pointed out that we couldn't get a passport for the baby (and obviously can't leave a baby that's a day old with a sitter or anything) so obviously we couldn't go - so that was cancelled, with a lot of stropping and angst directed at me. DBro hasn't spoken to me since that was cancelled and DSis has only spoken to confirm she'd bring the car seat and then, when I saw him, to say she hadn't brought it. DSis then responded to the group chat with a pointed and sulky message about "oh, so this is instead of going somewhere nice abroad then?". I feel like I've ruined everyone else's summer holiday plans because I wouldn't go abroad so I feel like I have to agree with this holiday in the UK. But, in truth, we can't afford to pay thousands for a holiday right now and I don't want to book something for two days after the baby is due! I didn't reply in the group chat because I didn't know what to say so then I got a message late last night from DM saying that she's going to phone me today to "nail down my plans for July and August". I can't "nail down my plans" - the baby could come at almost any point in July/August (due date is the very start of August), so my only plan is to be prepared for that.

I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful. I'm so ill, I have HG and I'm over a stone lighter than my booking-in weight and my weight is going down again. I just want to curl up in a ball, ignore everybody and cry - but that won't resolve the issue. She's going to phone me and I just don't know what to say, I don't even want to answer.

What do I do? I think I just needed to write all of that out.

OP you need to find some inner fire. I imagine you have spent your life obeying your DM and putting your own feelings last. But you are a mother now, and you have to start standing up for yourself.

I suspect you are just afraid of going NC, rather than believing the bollocks you wrote about your mum being great really. She isn't great, she is a narcissist who is abusing you.

You can spend the rest of your life being abused, and witness the legacy of that on your DC - she may abuse them too, or triangulate and turn them against you. Or you can use your imminent move to cut her off, make room for happiness and success in your life. You never have to listen to her criticisms or deal with her nonsense again. You just block and move on. Doesn't that sound like heaven?

Absolutely.

Time to bring out your ladyballs. Let these people know you’ve had enough of that shit.Tell Mum to stop dicking you around. You are not going anywhere while heavily pregnant or with a newborn. If she wants a holiday, go without you. Get on the phone to DS and let her know that your car seat needs to be returned in the state she borrowed it by x date or she will be liable for a new one of your choice.

For the love of dog, stop pandering to your unpleasant mother & sister.

You are not obliged to go on holiday with them - ever - & in the weeks after you have just given birth especially.

Next time your mother tells you she needs to "nail down plans for July & August" - tell her that she needs to make plans that don't include you, because YOUR plans are being at home with your new baby.

I feel like I've ruined everyone else's summer holiday plans because I wouldn't go abroad ...
That's bloody ridiculous. If your family passively-aggressively cancelled their holiday because you cannot make it - that is their decision, & nothing to do with you.
... so I feel like I have to agree with this holiday in the UK.
No you don't.

You are enmeshed in the toxic pattern of FOG - outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt
Have a good look around that website. You will recognise your mother, & her controlling & undermining tactics.

You say that I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful.
But life sometimes IS stressful.
What you need to face is the fact that continuing with the status quo is going to cause you this level of stress - & likely more - for the rest of your life.
The alternative is to wise up, get educated on the dynamic of abusive familial relationships, & start laying down your boundaries.

What's the worst that can happen? You mother kicks off, you are in her bad books. So what? Even when you go out of your way to appease & facilitate her - she kicks off in some way & guess what - you are still in her bad books.

You need to stop trying to please her. Stop imagining that there is some form of perfect behaviour or some form of words that will finally make her behave pleasantly. There isn't. Stop hoping that she will ever change, or that you will ever be treated decently.
This is a worry - the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS.

Have you ever had therapy to help you unpick how unreasonable & dysfunctional your mother is, & why you insist on appeasing her?
Because, sure - we are all 'programmed' to love our mothers. But yours is so unloveable, & treats you so bady, that I don't think that's love. I think it's a trauma bond - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_bonding

As to her being the 'amazing' grandmother - I reckon that's wishful thinking too. She's been horrible to you her whole life - what makes you think she's not going to start on your kids?

You are inviting more distress & more confrontation into your life by attempting to avoid conflict. Establishing boundaries is not an aggressive act. If your mother kicks off - let her, & drop the rope.
Practice saying "mother, you need to make plans that don't include me, because MY plans are being at home with my new baby."
Use that phrase as your Broken Record Technique fallback - just literally trot it out on repeat - & let you mother have conniptions about it in her own time.
Broken Record is there to prevent you from falling into the JADE trap -outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/jade-dont-justify-argue-defend-explain

& use Grey Rock when she tries to engage you in melodrama about your perfectly valid desire to stay at home with your new baby this summer.
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/grey-rock#how-to-use-it

Stop appeasing your mum and sister… it will never work. Let them work to please you.

She’s toxic, manipulative and abusive.

If I was married to you and you insisted on us entertaining this shit and dancing around this awful women I would probably divorce you.

Why are you subjecting yourself and your family to this awfulness? And by family I mean you’re actually family now you’re a grown up - your husband and child.

This is likely to destroy your marriage if you don’t address it, perhaps with the help of some counselling.

Oh and she’s absolutely not an amazing grandmother, far from it. She was happy for your toddler to suffer a long and unnecessary car journey so she could make her point to you that she was having a tantrum because she hadn’t got what she wanted at everyone else’s expense. How on earth can you class her as a positive person for your child?! She doesn’t care about anything other than herself and will gladly make your child suffer in order to stamp her feet and make her point.

@DWofMN first of all, obviously don’t go on that holiday. The fact that she’s making you feel like it’s your fault that you haven’t firmed up plans for July and August when you have a massive life event in the middle of it is RIDICULOUS. Tell them to go ahead and book without you and that you hope they have a lovely time, but that you’ll be at home with your new baby where you belong.

Second, buy a new car seat and chalk it up to experience.

Third, start distancing yourselves from these horribly toxic people. You don’t choose your family, but you can choose how much effect they have on you and your family.

If you aren’t willing to address the issue with your family then there isn’t much you can do.

When I was in a toxic relationship with an ex, outlandish, exceptional behaviour became normal to me and I couldn't realise how unusual it all was until I was out of that situation. I see similarities here. The things that you are being asked to do and accommodate - e.g. commit to a holiday on a day you might be giving birth, drive hours for a non-meeting, arrange an estate agent to show DM around your house, are all really unreasonable - verging on ridiculous. There is no way most people would even contemplate asking someone to do these things, let alone someone who is supposed to have your best interests at heart. I think that you wont be able to appreciate how wacky this all is until you are able to step away, even for a while.

Far far too waffly, and far too long a story .

Reams of solid text.

Distil it down to pertinent parts, then people might actually read it!

Shec can see the house when you move in

Thank god you are miles away

I find your post slightly annoying to be honest - very long and loads of irrelevant stuff in there.

From what I can gather
Your MIL and BIL / SIL are overbearing, demanding and also immature
You & DH are passive and let them walk all over you

You cannot control them so you either put up with their shit or decide to change your own stance.

For the love of god, why are you even in their holiday plans this year if you are about to give birth? Why haven't you &/or your DH said - 'we are having a baby in July so count us out of holiday planning this year'

Absolutely. "No" is good and absolutely can work, but it can be (I know from experience) very hard to say to someone who has spent your entire life conditioning you to prioritise their feelings over yours.

"Nevermind", "No big deal", "Do whatever you want to DM, we'll be doing x", "sorry to hear that but no problem" can be just as effective and easier to implement.

Keep it light, bland & cheery, no matter how grumpy or huffy she gets. Keep contact on your terms if and when it works for you, and in doses which, work for you.

Have secret codes /signals with dp for "are you ok" & "get me the hell out of here" - use them.

good luck

A lot of PPs telling OP to grow a backbone don't know what it's like to have been so conditioned to fear someone. It's literally a lifetime of indoctrination that OPs sole purpose is to satisfy every whim of her mother. It often therapy and a huge amount of emotional and psychological support to go NC because the conditioning is so deeply ingrained.

Op if you haven't already had therapy, start and go LC or NC under their guidance. Think about the concept of just sitting with uncomfortable feelings (the fear of going NC and all the anxiety that will create). Your therapist will help walk you through how to do this without falling apart.

Your story made me really sad. You are a human being with as much worth and as much right to live your life happily ad your family do. You need to understand that her needs don't automatically trump yours because she is your mother!

You have two bad options:

1. cut them off or reduce contract, and deal with the fall out

2. continue to live like that, teaching horrible lessons to your DC and letting your DH be treated badly, and maybe getting ill from all the stress eventually.

One is worse than the other.

OP my dd loves me but no way would she put up with overbearing and bullying behaviour.
You need some boundaries and if after writing all that text you're prepared to carry on putting up with such awful family dynamics then you only have yourself to blame.
You may be your dm's dc but you are not a dc.
You're an adult and your dh and dc deserve to be put first before the woman who just happened to birth you.

If you won’t set boundaries to stop them treating you terribly, then they will continue and you will feel awful continually.

You don’t need to drive an extra hour if someone’s fucked you about, family or not.

You don’t need to fix another adult’s unreasonable issue with birthday gifts, family or not.

You CERTAINLY don’t need to go on a holiday hours away from your local hospital when it’s your due date.

I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful.

True there’s no option that’s stress-free. But you’re wrong that appeasing her is less stress than confronting her. Setting boundaries (which involves standing up for your family, which = confrontation) is short-term pain for being less stressed in the long-term. By failing to stand up for yourself, you’re going to have ongoing stress forever.

Stamp your feet. Be as demanding as she is. Be as assertive as she is for yourself.

Or get your DH to tell her.

But definitely don’t go on holiday and don’t listen to any moaning,

You need to put firm boundaries in place. Stop entertaining this nonsense.
Don't go driving round the countryside trying to meet up with them when they made an arrangement with you (a ridiculous demand to see the new house that you don't even own yet).
The present thing: not your problem. If the item has been chosen my someone else DM will have to choose something else from the list. Do not bother trying to facilitate any kind of present swapping.
The holiday thing: completely and utterly ludicrous. There's something wrong with your DM and brother and sister if they think booking a holiday and expecting you to be there two days after you give birth is appropriate. The baby might be late. There might be a complication meaning you have to stay in hospital longer (hopefully not). And who the hell wants to go on holiday with a new born.

The holiday thing makes me think that they actually enjoy pushing you around. They are getting a kick out of seeing how far they can go. They are bullying you and it needs to stop.
Start with the holiday. Put in the WhatsApp chat that you will not be going on the holiday as your baby is due. And wish them a nice holiday.
Do not have any more discussion about it. If they bring it up, either ignore, or just keep saying "We aren't going on holiday. Our baby is due at that time".

I wouldn't put up with ANY of this shit... but I appreciate it is very hard when you have been brought up like this and had years of this kind of abuse, because that's what it is.

If I remember correctly, your BIL is struggling with fertility and so you havent been able to talk about your pregancy AT ALL during this period - so none of the normal congratulatory stuff, and also no recognition of how sick you have been, including being hospitalised.

If you want to pass the buck, and given how unwell you are, and how your DH previously said he was happy to - I would be tempted to let him post on the group chat - to ALL of them, something along the lines of what was suggested upthread about the consultant, and also dropping in that with all the hospital stays and ilness of this pregnancy, its simply not possibly. And BTW can we have car seat back as will need it for x date. Let him be firm and stand as a barrier between them and you for the next couple of months

I know its taking the easy way out. But Id also suggest getting some good hard counselling, so that once this period is out of the way, you can learn to defend your boundaries because next time is heading down the track already

Jeez - your mother is insane and your siblings sound vile, I’m so sorry. Right, I think a message on the WhatsApp to say “I’m sorry but given the unpredictability of an actual birth date I’m afraid we absolutely cannot commit to anything over the course of July & August. As we definitely can’t join you in any event why don’t you all go abroad instead?” If you’re not in financial dire straits give up on the car seat - never lend your sister anything again. Thank God you are moving away from them. You really do need to stand up for yourself here - if her darling grandson means that much then she’ll amend her behaviour, if not then you’ve saved him too which can only be a good thing🤷🏼‍♀️. Please please - calmly make your point, if they come back with anything remotely rude then block immediately.

In the group chat: "That looks lovely, enjoy the holidays everyone, but as you know because Baby is due around that time, we won't be going on holidays then. So I know whoever was involved in organising the booking will have taken that into account."

To DM: "We cannot go on holidays, nor have any concrete plans for July and August because DBaby is due, and babies don't operate to a timetable. I'm sure you understand."

To DSis: "I really need the car seat. As you were unable to bring it when you came on holidays, can you please bring it to our house in the next 3 weeks please? I am no longer able to travel that long distance (I was extremely sick the day I met you all because of the travel involved and all the uncertainty and changing of plans meant I spent a lot more time in the car than I had expected)."

(Perhaps, if feeling generous, back in the group chat: "It will be chaotic for a few weeks while we get organised in the new house and with new baby. But we will organise a BBQ before the end of the summer and hope you can all come to that." If feeling VERY generous!).

Why are you constantly allowing them to bulldozer all over you???
Grow a backbone and actually put your DH and DC first!

Voted YABU because you are behaving
like a mug.

You can only control your behaviour not others. You are letting people walk all over your boundaries to ‘keep the peace’ but you arn’t, are you. Your mum and family are still being jerks.

Insist on what will work for you and weather out the strop or cut back on contact. Phones can be switched off you know!

Was about to post pretty much this.

It's time to break the utterly ridiculous "ban" on mentioning your pregnancy.
DH needs to send a message like nettle suggests. I think he should also point out how appallingly unwell you are, that he is pissed off with you being badgered to commit to a holiday when you are about to give birth, & that you will no longer be jerked around making plans with MiL because she doesn't have the courtesy to keep to them.

And therapy. Ye dogs OP - please get some therapy.

I remember your dh’s post. Your dm and family are behaving like spoiled brats and you are allowing them to do so.

Your dm wanted to take your dsis to see a house you don’t own yet, and you went out of your way to make it happen. Why? You should have just told them to wait until you move in.

Your tearing yourself in knots about a ‘family’ holiday that you don’t even want to go on. Why? Just tell them that you will have just had a baby and they must be on glue if they think you’ll be leaving your own home.

I remember from your dh’s thread that you are not allowed to mention your pregnancy or sickness to any member of your family for fear of upsetting a brother who is struggling to conceive - even when he isn’t there and even though you are suffering and in need of support. Why? Can you really not see how toxic this situation is?

This may all seem harsh but it’s important that you realise this. Your family do not care about you or have your best interests at heart. You’re just there to blame and take advantage of. I would not be exposing my dh and dc to this. Walk away now.