So sick of walking on eggshells but can't deal with the fall-out if I don't. Advice please!

[DWofMN]

I'm using DH's account, I'm not a MNer so please forgive me if I mess up the terminology - and apologies that this is long.

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS.

There are a few incidents playing on my mind and I don't know how to handle them:

DH and I are moving house to a new location, just over two hours from where we live. DM messaged me a couple of weeks ago to say that DSis was going on holiday to "nearby" the new house and, because DSis wanted to do an "adult only" activity with her DH, they had asked DM to come along and babysit DN. DM suggested we take this opportunity to show her our new house (I don't see why she needs to see it tbh) and I said I'd speak to the agent. The agent said it basically depends how busy they are - the owners won't allow us to just have free access to the house (it's vacant) which is fair enough so the agent said he'd do a viewing for DM if he has a slot available on the day but that he'd be prioritising people viewing properties who are actually going to purchase them (which is also fair enough). It also tied in well because I'm in my third trimester now and DSis still has my 0+ baby seat from when DN was little - and I need it back. So, I could tie in getting that back from her, I asked her to take it with her so I could get it back and she said she would. I've been anxious to get it back because DSis isn't the most reliable and I'm worried it'll be broken or missing parts and I need to know ASAP because it's part of our whole travel system.

On the day, the agent said that, unfortunately, he's fully booked up and there's no way he can do a viewing of the house for DM but that the vendors have said they have no problem with us going onto the property to look at the gardens and things - and we could also show DM the local area. I relayed this to DM, who was annoyed but ok, and I suggested we do an activity that's right next to the house that DS and DN would enjoy - DM agreed and we said what our ETA was and I sent a link and Google Maps location for the activity. When we arrived, about two hours later, there was no sign of DM and a few minutes later, DH got a text from DM that said "that's too far away..." (even though it's right next to the house she wanted to go and see) so DH replied asking her what she'd like to do. She replied "well, you could suggest somewhere closer for a start" - we don't know where she even is, all she's said to us is that she's staying "nearby the new house" (which was the entire reason she wanted us to book the viewing). She sent us her location, which was almost an hour away (and, by this point, we'd left the house three hours earlier, with a toddler and me being sick the whole time). DH drove the extra hour down and we met DM, DF and DN. DM was in a bad mood the whole time and told us she couldn't stay long (we met at a pub) because they needed to check out by 4pm (it was now gone 2pm) which I thought was odd because they were staying with DSis on her holiday so didn't need to "check out" but whatever. So, at 3.30pm DM went to the bathroom, I checked the time and said to DF we'd better head off to check out - at which point he said there's no rush because there's no check-out time. He said that just as DM reappeared, and she then had a big strop because she'd clearly been caught in a lie and just didn't want to spend any time with me. DF then wanted DH to help with lifting luggage so we went back to their accommodation to help, DSis came back at that point and said that she hadn't brought the car seat because she couldn't fit it in the car... So, I'd spent a day of my bank holiday driving for almost 8 hours to sit with my mum for 2 hours whilst she sulked, have DH sent rude text messages and not get my car seat back! It feels like I did nothing but try to appease her (by trying to get the viewing, by driving the extra hour to her, by pretending to accept she never said they had to check-out, by DH helping them pack, by not responding in kind to her rude messages etc) and all I got in return was her showing that she doesn't care at all.

DS has a birthday coming up and, because people insist on buying huge plastic toys that we have no space for despite us asking multiple times for them not to, we made an online list of gifts we think DS would like that are either activities or very small (a range of prices and no pressure to get anything). The online list is like a wedding gift registry where people say what they've bought so you don't end up with duplicates. For previous birthdays/Christmases, people have asked us for gift ideas and, regardless of what we suggest and even when we say "anything that isn't huge because we have no space", certain relatives insist on purchasing the biggest imaginable toys. I don't mean to sound ungrateful. One of DS's relatives purchased an activity gift from the list to take him to do. The next day, I got an irate message from DM asking why it's no longer available because she wanted to do that one. I asked around and found out, but explained to DM that DS would definitely enjoy doing the activity more than once so she can do it too if she likes - but she said no, she didn't want to do what someone else was doing. So, I had to ask the relative to give that up so DM could do it. Then, on a video call to DM later that day, DS showed her his new toy that he loves that he'd seen whilst we were out shopping (a small toy about £7). DM then got upset because she'd bought him the exact same toy for his birthday (how were we supposed to know that?) and couldn't return it because she'd bought it many months ago. I resolved that by saying we could return the one she has (still in packaging) as if it's the one we bought (they're identical and bought from the same store) and that DS can have the one he currently has a birthday gift from her - so she eventually, and grumpily, accepted that solution.

Then, last night, DM sent a link to our group chat to a holiday home booked for 2 days after my due date this summer. It's five hours drive from where I live, and mine and DH's share would be almost £1000 just for the house. The message accompanying the link said it was so that we could now go on the holiday. DM has been trying to book a family holiday abroad but we pointed out that we couldn't get a passport for the baby (and obviously can't leave a baby that's a day old with a sitter or anything) so obviously we couldn't go - so that was cancelled, with a lot of stropping and angst directed at me. DBro hasn't spoken to me since that was cancelled and DSis has only spoken to confirm she'd bring the car seat and then, when I saw him, to say she hadn't brought it. DSis then responded to the group chat with a pointed and sulky message about "oh, so this is instead of going somewhere nice abroad then?". I feel like I've ruined everyone else's summer holiday plans because I wouldn't go abroad so I feel like I have to agree with this holiday in the UK. But, in truth, we can't afford to pay thousands for a holiday right now and I don't want to book something for two days after the baby is due! I didn't reply in the group chat because I didn't know what to say so then I got a message late last night from DM saying that she's going to phone me today to "nail down my plans for July and August". I can't "nail down my plans" - the baby could come at almost any point in July/August (due date is the very start of August), so my only plan is to be prepared for that.

I feel like the stress of appeasing her is just too much - but it's so much less stress than either confronting her or ignoring her. So, there's no option which isn't stressful. I'm so ill, I have HG and I'm over a stone lighter than my booking-in weight and my weight is going down again. I just want to curl up in a ball, ignore everybody and cry - but that won't resolve the issue. She's going to phone me and I just don't know what to say, I don't even want to answer.

What do I do? I think I just needed to write all of that out.

You sound like my friends whose mothers never gave them enough love and have spent their entire adult lives trying to get the love they were never given as children.

I'm so sorry, OP, but you must have a wonderful husband to go along with all these shinnanigans.

Just because you’re related to your DM, DF, DSis doesn’t give them free rein to treat you like shit. Don’t allow them to. IF you want to maintain contact ( and I can’t see why) then all the contact invites come from you —- you invite them to visit your new home for afternoon tea on x date.
Ignore the huge plastic toy issue. Tell them book tokens or Amazon cards only are welcome, give any huge toys to a playgroup / school/ sell on EBay.

Low, low contact —- these are not nice people and they will only bring you down. I speak from experience, my birth family were toxic.

Also she is not a good GP. Would a good GP make their grandkids mum drive around for hours while they were being sick? Make their grandkids witness their mum being treated like absolute shit? Teach them that lying is fine to get out of something they no longer fancy?

Oh for goodness sake OP, open your eyes and accept the advice you have been given!!! This relationship is toxic, I can't see anything positive about it at all.

You absolutely need to detach from your toxic mother and focus on your own family!!!

Your mum sounds like a selfish cow. If my mum acted like that I’d tell her exactly where to fuck off to. I could not be arsed dealing with that level of self centred bullshit from anyone.

Your family are nasty, vindictive cunts, who are quite deliberately setting you up to take yet another kicking from them.

There's probably no point trying to work out why they behave like this towards you, because it sounds like a very long-standing, complicated and toxic dynamic. It's so insane that you probably feel as though there must be a way to get them to see the error of their ways, if you can just be nice enough to them and do enough for them. But they're never going to change because they're nasty cunts.

My gran used to say that every arsehole in the world had to be related to someone and it's very true. Just because they're family doesn't make them good people to have in your life. And you have no responsibility towards them. You do, however, have a responsibility towards your husband and son to not drag them into this awful, poisonous mess. I saw your husband's thread and he must be at screaming point by now.

I have an in-law who isn't nasty as such, but who is incredibly challenging, and creates a huge amount of drama and worry. Watching the rest of the family flap about trying to appease her, and solve her completely unsolvable, generally made-up issues is probably the single greatest source of frustration in my life. You just want to scream at them to stop going along with it. They can all see it quite clearly, but they keep getting sucked back in. I've started being very blunt when one of them says something like 'Oh dear, X is [insert complete non-problem or insane situation] and she can't sort it out because [insert entirely made-up issue] and I don't know what she's going to do.' I used to make soothing noises. Now I just say 'Well, she can sort it out, can't she? That's not actually a problem, is it? Anyone want a cup of tea?'

Disengage, disengage, disengage. Before they do any more damage to you and your immediate family than they've already done.

To those saying to the OP to remind her Mother of her due date, or put it in the group chat, the OP is banned from talking about her pregnancy at all. They haven't been able to share that she's had a risky pregnancy or has worryingly lost weight. There was a suggestion of a C-section and they haven't been able to tell anyone. It was prohibited completely. Which is what prompted the DH to post, because without mentioning the pregnancy they've got no excuse to not go on holiday. That's how toxic things are.

Oh ffs grow a fucking backbone and tell her to do one. She is not a great grandmother expecting you to take a toy away from a small child in addition to all the other shit she’s pulled. She sounds vile. Stop holding on to this I love her message you keep telling yourself. You need to open your eyes and actually read back your post and imagine it was someone else.

Response on group WhatsApp:

We will not be going on holiday. As we have said repeatedly I will not be going away so close to my due date. Please do as you please without us.
I am shocked at the appalling behaviour from all of you and would ask that you don’t contact either myself or DH.
DSis I need you to courier my car seat back to me ASAP.

It will explode but quite frankly fuck them. If I hadnot read the other thread I would have thought this was a wind up because it’s that shocking.

Reply ‘thanks but we are not going on holidays until the baby is at least 2, have a great time !’

Absolutely awful people, why would you want to spend any time with them? You are stuck in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) you don't do things because you enjoy spending time with her, you are conditioned to be a dutiful punch bag for them.

The second you tell your sister that you have bought a new car seat she will return yours because she will want you to have spent the money.

You deserve so much better than this, she is not a nice grandmother either and if you continue to allow her in your life like this in the future she will use your child against you, she will tell him lies, lure him with stuff you won't buy for him etc. This is not what you want. You and your Dh have been given the best advice which is to go no contact. Even if you did stand up to them she will never see it from your point of view because everything always goes her way, you will always be wrong to her. Can you honestly see her backing down, apologising?

Sometimes we have to accept that parents are not what we want them to be. It is sad but true.

I think you are mistaking fear for love OP, it is easily done with overbearing parents. I also very much doubt that she is an amazing grandma and that your children's relationships with the rest of this toxic posse will be healthy. You can't control how they are, you can't make them into the thing you need, but you can control how you allow them to treat you.

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either

To be honest I am not really sure what advice you are looking for. These are the only two options when dealing with people like this. You arent a child and will continue to be treated poorly for as long as you allow it. I say this as someone who has been completely NC with her mother since 2004.

I genuinely dont understand holidaying with family. Ive never holidayed with either mine or my partners families since I was a teenager. If your mother pushes you into 'firming up plans' just say you cant so they can do their own thing this year at least (every year if possible).

I genuinely dont understand your comment about her being a good GC either. I can only assume that you see how she is with your child and miss it for yourself. I wouldnt want someone who is happy to treat you the way she does around your child so she can do the same to them as well.

She can look at the new house on rightmove.

OP. Straight talking required:

Stop it. Stop all of it. These people enhance your life in no way whatsoever. Priority 1: get the car seat back from your sister.

Then cut down (you don't need to tell them, no announcement, just quietly get on with your own lives) your contact with your family. Have the baby, move house then on your schedule let them know where you are etc.

But blimey the flipping drama. Why have you ruined anyone's holiday? I assume they all know how it works with pregnancy and babies. You don't need to let things get that advanced. "no, doesn't fit our schedule". No "sorry, can't ..." or "maybe we could..." just "no"

As for the presents. Ask them all to stick a tenner in an envelope? Any presents you don't want? donate or sell them. no drama - no telling, just do it.

You need to cut the lot of them out. Nowhere in any of that was there an ‘amazing grandmother’.

Why would you have given anyone the impression that you would be up for going on holiday on or around your due date?

DH posted recently about an issue I'm having with my family and the general advice was either to go NC or to stand up to them - I don't feel like I can do either because DM has a temper but I love her dearly and treasure her in my life. She's an amazing GP to DS

Do you treasure her in your life though? All I can see in your post is wall to wall drama, and ridiculous expectations (booking a holiday for 2 days after your due date). She sounds mentally unwell, because nothing about that sounds sensible.

I had a similar dynamic with a relative. Was tying myself in knots trying to appease and please her, and it ended up making me unwell. She went NC with me after I stood up to her, and to be honest it's been bliss ever since.

You certainly, at the very least, need to be firmer. So, when for eg your Mum sent that link to a holiday with a date 2 days after your due date, you should have replied : "We're not having a holiday this year, given that baby is due in August". I'm not sure why you didn't just shut that whole conversation down??

You are running around trying to please your mother at the expense of your health, your relationship with your husband and your child’s happiness and needs.

Why?

She doesn’t love you any more for it, hasn’t suddenly started treating you with respect, doesn’t give anything back.

Whether you are in contact or not, you will be miserable, but at least with no contact you will have time to accept who she is, that she won’t change and that your priority is you and the family you are building.

All of this.

If you don't want to answer, don't answer. Put a message in the Whatsapp group to the effect that there has been a misunderstanding. That your inability to go on the overseas holiday did not mean that you would be able to attend a UK holiday at the same time as giving birth, and that you will be blocking out x weeks in July and August to focus entirely on the baby. Mute the notifications and let them get on with it.

I would suggest talking to a therapist about how to build and maintain appropriate boundaries with your family. You might not be able to do it alone.

Mamamia7962 said it on page one. You need to change your behaviour. If you cannot stand up to them, then go low contact. Repeat to yourself. I'm putting my kids and husband first. Make decisions with that focus.
Sister, can I you bring the car seat back now or send me the cash for a new one.

Group. We are not coming on holiday 2 days after due date so do what you want and enjoy yourselves.

Stop pandering to your mums every whim. It sounds like you are the dogsbody of the family. Resign that role and focus on your new family going forward.

Ease off contact now. Support from your DH is essential so draw up a plan together. See them much less when move to new house. Keep repeating that doesn't work for me.

Jesus fucking christ that was exhausting.

You need to lay down some boundaries and learn to say no. Accept that there will be some fallout but that's because your mother is selfish, so leave her to get on with it.

I mean really, booking a holiday to start 2 days after your due date? Wtf is wrong with her?!

Say NO. Say 'that doesn't work for me". No apologies and no explanations. If they care about you enough they'll make the effort.

@DWofMN I replied to your husband about this.

My advice remains the same - you need to be firm and assertive.

If you had clearly said something like the following you would not be in the position you are in now with the U.K. holiday.

“My baby is due at the beginning of August. I have been very ill throughout pregnancy and my consultant has expressly said I am to be on bed rest for 6 weeks prior to birth and 6 weeks after. No holidays. Limited visitors.”

I would suggest you go with something like that tack - putting the blame on the consultant so you don’t get it in the neck.

And then emphasise expressly to them that you would prefer it in future if they contact you and discuss the matter prior to making a holiday booking as you have medical issues and limited funds.

For goodness sake get a grip - you have not ruined anyone’s holiday plans. You are pregnant about to give birth and have been very ill with next to no family support. They have ruined their own holiday plans due to this absurd notion that they can bully you and a newborn into going. Absolute madness.

From everything you’ve said your family are not amazing and I think you need to just put your foot down to protect yourself. Concentrate on the baby. That is what is important and yourself of course.

Do yourself a favour and buy a new car seat, forget about relying on them for anything - nail that down!

Please take care x

Why are you putting up with being treated like this op? Your children will learn that this is a normal way to treat family.

Why did you tell a relative to return their gift in order to appease your DM , who wanted to choose that one to send your DS ? Your fear of her is making you treat others badly . Time to stand up to her, however much you don't want to.

Honestly, OP, this is the kind of messy rubbish that can only take place when all parties play along with it. It is impossible for this kind of scenario to develop unless you play your old role of appeaser.

You are not making any plans for July and August. Just say that. Ignore all the 'but...' or 'how about...' or 'what if...' comebacks and just fall back to the position. You understand that means no holiday for you, but it doesn't stop others going and you are not making plans for July and August.

Stick to it. Expect fall out. It won't be any worse than it is now and, eventually, it'll stop (or you will stop it).