To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

If you have children you definetly need to mention this early.

Your kids will be a very important part of your life.

That way the other person can opt in our out before any emotional attachment to you or you to them.

You are very welcome to your opinion of me. All I was doing was responding to an unfounded position on something I wrote.

Im definitely making the points I think I’m making, but thank you for the input.

Yes, it's mutually beneficial.

I think it would be just as frustrating for the person with children to find out they'd been building a connection & getting their hopes for someone they're not actually compatable with.

They could have spent their time chatting and getting to know someone they have a future with and who is genuinely committed to making it work with both you and your kids.

I didn't like kids when I was one, I certainly don't like them now and would flat out refuse to meet someone with them. Fortunately DP and I are both on the same page and were so when we met OLD.

The only thing worse for us than having to look after kids is looking after someone elses.

I'm feeling the same these days.

I spoke to a male friend about this and he said there are women who write things like "I'm a single mum and we come as a package" or tell him a few messages in that they have two young kids.

Why on God's green earth would a professional 30-something man swipe right on someone like that, or continue chatting? What possible reason is there that isn't nefarious? The vast majority of single 30-something women in London are childless, so why would someone specifically choose to make their life harder and more complicated? It would set off alarm bells if a man wasn't at all bothered by the fact I had young children.

It's different if you meet IRL and become friends and build up a connection. But dating via apps, with your pick of women, and you go for a single mother? More red flags than a communist parade.

@pixie5121 Why on God's green earth would a professional 30-something man swipe right on someone like that, or continue chatting? What possible reason is there that isn't nefarious?

Because generally speaking women are more likely to value who a man is (i.e capable, successful, funny, intellectual etc) and what a man has/n't (i.e education, job, lifestyle, children, finances etc) whereas the type of "high value male" most women are seeking are more likely to assign most value to how a woman makes them feel and be less concerned about the other stuff.

At least that's the general conclusions I'm coming to in my 30s anyway.

You're thinking about things incorrectly dear. YOU need to put that you don't date people with children in YOUR profile! You should make it ABUNDANTLY clear so people with kids will be forewarned! Don't rely on people to say anything. Some parents don't put that because they don't want to be targeted by pedos and such. If YOU don't want kids to be a factor, YOU need to ask! Stop expecting people to cater to YOU!

OP I was replying to @pixie5121 but forgot forgot to tag her.

@pixie5121 that is your view that having children in your 20s is a poor life choice. I don't believe having children at any particular age or not having them at all constitutes either a positive or negative life choice- it depends on the individual.

The saddest situation is when women lose children or don't/can't have them and do want them. I could never call wanted children a poor life choice, that's an awful thing to say. Nor do I think being child free is a poor life choice- that's great again if it is chosen.

There are many ways to live happy productive lives - we aren't all cut from the same cloth and we want different things in a partner. There are very obvious universal red flags such as being abusive, violent, having an addiction etc., that everyone should avoid but beyond that who are you or I to dictate what people should look for?

I so agree with this.

With the exception of my one friend briefly who dated that guy with a young child, all my friends would never have considered dating a guy with children even in their 30's.

Likewise, exactly as @pixie5121 has written, why any guy in his 30's would swipe right for someone with young children I certainly don't know.

Meeting IRL, sure.
Online, definitely not.

Rubbish.
Does she need to write that she doesn't want a married man or that if someone has HIV they should say so?
It's up to the parent to declare that they are a parent.

You really don't have a high opinion of men, do you?

You basically think men are just happy to have a pretty dolly bird on their arm who hangs on their every word and makes them feel clever and special.

If that's the case, why on earth do you want one?

I wouldn't be impressed by someone who is 30 and has a two-year-old child and is looking to date.

What went wrong in the relationship? Why is some other woman finding it preferable to raise children mostly alone than to have this man on the scene? Women with two young children, one barely a toddler, don't leave for no reason. And if he left her, that's almost worse.

My issue isn't with people having children in their twenties. I know people who met their soulmate at 18 and had kids in their twenties and are very happy. My issue is with people who rushed into marriage and kids in their twenties and are now looking to date while their kids are still in nappies. Red flags galore.

I don't have children, never wanted them and was sure i wouldn't date a man with them either. Then i met dp. We met in an online community not a dating site, but i knew after 2 weeksish that he had a little boy. But i had a huge crush on him from day 1 and was very keen by the time i was made aware of his son. We are now just over 18 months in to a great relationship, and hopefully over the summer holidays i'll get to meet the little man for the first time. (Only sees him weekends, we meet up in the week)
Infact, despite my lifelong fear of pregnancy and childbirth, and previous certainty i didn't want kids, i can't wait to be in his life, and have even thought about potentially having a child together. I never believed all that "you just haven't met the right man" spiel and was offended at peoples insistence i didn't know what i wanted, but i may just prove to be the cliche.

@SmellyWellyWoo Im 50 next year and have never wanted children and feel grateful that i live in an era where im able to make that choice. Previous generations of women havent been as lucky.

"Why is some other woman finding it preferable to raise children mostly alone than to have this man on the scene? Women with two young children, one barely a toddler, don't leave for no reason. And if he left her, that's almost worse. "

Very well said. Too bad more women don't ask themselves these questions.

If it's a deal breaker for you, why not ask or just mention in your own profile? A lot of ppl don't mention their children for safety & privacy issues.

I'm with you OP, I think something so life dominating should be disclosed before meeting.

I was on OLD a few years ago & had my 3 deal breakers clearly listed in my profile (no kids under 12, no bald men, no short men) but I still got responses from short, bald, father's of toddlers. It's an easy way of weeding out the liars, the entitled & the sexist ones though.

Yep this is real life.

So upsetting to read some of the attitudes on this thread. I hope no vulnerable young single mums are reading this- taking it to heart l- and thinking ‘no man would ever swipe right on me unless they were completely desperate or a paedo’. The fact is that life is so much more complicated and rich, and so are human beings (and their attraction), than the narrow, cliched, judgemental, discriminatory and degrading attitudes propagated on these threads.

*Yep this is real life.

So upsetting to read some of the attitudes on this thread. I hope no vulnerable young single mums are reading this- taking it to heart l- and thinking ‘no man would ever swipe right on me unless they were completely desperate or a paedo’. The fact is that life is so much more complicated and rich, and so are human beings (and their attraction), than the narrow, cliched, judgemental, discriminatory and degrading attitudes propagated on these threads.*

"Real life" is also that when you actually meet the kids it often gets a hell of a lot more complicated and can go massively downhill. As you well know because you are so offended on threads where that has happened.

Your insistence that it is "narrow minded" or "discriminatory" to avoid becoming a step parent when it isn't what you want, and then equally fervent insistence that step parents totally submit themselves to revolving their lives around their step children, is really bizarre. You KNOW it is a huge commitment that requires many sacrifices and constant consideration, even more so in your view than in many others, yet you are absolutely determined that people sleepwalk into that situation, to the extent that avoiding it from the get go deeply offends you.

Are YOU so narrow minded and judgmental that you are offended by the notion of anyone mot automatically wanting to essentially become a parent to someone else's child? Because tied together with your views on what step parents should be doing, that is what you are saying.

Your insistence that it is "narrow minded" or "discriminatory" to avoid becoming a step parent when it isn't what you want

I absolutely 100% never said this. You completely misunderstand me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to date a man/ woman with children. I have said this repeatedly. Becoming a step parent is absolutely not something that should be done without thought, care and sacrifice.

what I was responding to here is pps who have said things like- why would any unattached professional man in his 30s EVER want to swipe right on a woman with children (if there were other childless women available) you can read the thread there are some incredibly sweeping and judgemental comments to this effect.

The reality is- lots of men do date single mothers and find them desirable attractive for a multitude of different reasons. My friend was attracted to her partner partly because of his children, she loved how family oriented his lifestyle was, and watching him parent was really attractive to her.
not everyone thinks the same way.

@aSofaNearYou

@aSofaNearYou take a look up thread. This is the kind of thing I was responding to (there have been other similar)

”Why on God's green earth would a professional 30-something man swipe right on someone like that, or continue chatting? What possible reason is there that isn't nefarious?…with your pick of women, and you go for a single mother? More red flags than a communist parade.”

I'm sorry the truth bothers you so much.

If a 30-something professional man purposely seeking out single mothers isn't a red flag, then you're very naive. Men aren't like women. Yes, some women find single dads attractive, 'oh aren't they so sweet with the kids', etc. Men do not think like this. They just don't. Raising another man's kids is not desirable. They might date the woman despite this, if they like her enough, but you honestly think it's ever a selling point on an app? That if there are 100 attractive 28-year-old women, they're going to pick the one who already has a child? Meaning huge restrictions on lifestyle from the very beginning? No spontaneous late drinks, no staying over, no last-minute trip to Paris for a couple of nights? Having to think of someone else's child when making the most basic of plans?

You are really deluded.

Life choices come with consequences. Having a child restricts your options. It just does. I don't see how it's any less 'fair' than most men choosing not to date a disabled woman, even though the latter isn't a choice.

Very true what you said about the person with children also; not mentioning your children/no children/never want children wastes everyone's time.

Luckily everyone doesn’t think like this. Your assumptions and generalisations about “what men want” “how they think” and “what they desire” are cliched and narrow minded: nothing more than bland and harmful stereotypes. People , thankfully, are much more diverse than you paint them out to be.