To think you tell someone pre going on a date

[floralarrangement]

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another

OP,
So many moronic, obtuse, deliberately antagonistic posts.

He was absolutely dishonest.

You were polite not to have left when you were told of his dishonesty.

Of course you have no interest in a man with young children at 28.

I wouldn't have considered a guy with children when I was dating years ago for a minute.

Far too much hassle than its worth.
One of my closest friends did but thank god ditched him when she final woke up and he had the cheek to arrange a pint out with a friend on a night she was over at his.....he really thought she wouldn't mind being left babysitting HIS child while he nipped out.
Big mistake, she ditched him.

OP, take a good long look at the misery on the step parenting thread if you want confirmation of your decision to give men with children the widest berth.

Invariably they are avoidant parents looking for an au pair/skivvy to dump their parenting on.

Those children at 2 and 4 are very young......why did his relationship fail?.....was it because his ex thought life would be easier without him?

Stick to your guns.

Children are hard work, unfortunately on MN step mothers are expected to provide endless free childcare to the parents, whilst offering NO opinions on anything.

I think the difference was that she was being sympathetic to an unpopular approach, rather than adopting a virtuous position .
But I don’t think anyone can say how they would feel/ what they would do until they’ve been in the situation. And I think even those who are in that situation may have changing approaches, depending on where they are at/ various factors etc. - this is what I have observed from the outside anyway.

@whumpthereitis - this voice of sanity

Way to twist what I'm saying!! I'm a career woman myself. My point is I do not think this makes me more "valuable" to men.

Imagine intentionally putting yourself in such a dangerous, precarious financial position just so men don't think you're a ......gasp......career woman.

This is just... what?!

Everything I said was in response to you and your frankly metal assumptions that men find women at 40 more desirable than way younger if they're childless.

Everything I said was in response to a very quick search and an active thread of yours that showed you believe yourself to be better than most other women.

Single mothers are entitled and undesirable men would rather have me! Women who wear makeup are mingers I'm so much better! Women who get into a new relationship quickly are just settling I would never do that!!

You've taken your very narrow view of what traits = a woman's value and have turned this into The Dating Value Of A Woman.

Dragging enough women down won't allow you to climb any higher, and believing you have what men want won't make it any more true.

Anyway... I think both sides of this "debate" feel like everything they say just gets twisted so probably better to bow out. It's been interesting and, again, wish ya'll well. 

I think the difference was that she was being sympathetic to an unpopular approach, rather than adopting a virtuous position

@Tandora

Saying that if I had a child, I would want a relationship with a man who specifically was happy to be with someone with children is not "adopting a virtuous position", it is giving my opinion on why I am suprised people see it as beneficial to hide the fact they have children to prospective future partners.

Again, it's your own triggers that are making it as such.

Fantastic post @billy1966 Step parents seem to be good enough to do the kids washing and other grunt work but when it comes to an opinion or discipline its all "he/she isnt your child"

Yes, these are some of things that make me think I wouldn't want to be step-parent.

Most of the issues don't even seem to be with the children - it's managing the relationship between partner & ex or you and ex.

@billy1966 that happened to an ex neighbour of mine. Her ex would pick his kids up then leave them with her at the weekend while he pissed off out to the football and other hobbies.

Your post was complete nonsense.

I never said being a career women makes me more valuable to men. I said that a woman who is mid to late thirties is generally more desirable to professional men that age than a woman who is 28-29 with a kid. This is what I see around me, all the time. I do not know of one man in my entire workplace or social circle who married a single mother. I know plenty who recently started dating women in their mid to late thirties. From what I can see, childless wins out over a slight youth advantage, especially when the women are still of an age where they could have a child (e.g. under 40).

You were the one who had a dig at me for not wearing make-up. A ridiculous, unnecessary dig. And when I responded that I don't wear it because I don't think I need it and tbh the men I date don't like it much anyway, suddenly I'm the one being bitchy and mean? LOL!

I said feeling entitled to someone's time and attention is entitled. I have said more than once that I have my own issues that put people off, such as a chronic illness. I don't criticise men for that and call them shallow.

You are the one dragging other women down. Dragging up information from other threads, designed to hurt and wound (except it doesn't, it's just pathetic and shows everyone the kind of person you are).

You have the least self awareness I've ever seen.

@Tandora

This must be the fifth time now you've posted about things I've said that do not exist.

Again, you are just demonstrating you don't have any logical points to make when you need to make things up.

If you feel strongly enough to commit this much time to a thread, you might as well argue properly. It's frustating because no-one can have a proper debate when you're continually derailing it and throwing insults.

Huh? I have not accused you of anything you didn’t say.

my points are perfectly logical and “properly argued” and not about “throwing insults”. You opened this latest dialogue with me. I get that you don’t like my perspective. If you don’t like people disagreeing with you/ calling you out on certain things, maybe don’t open a debate on social media? 💁🏼‍♀️

If you don’t like people disagreeing with you/ calling you out on certain things, maybe don’t open a debate on social media?

@Tandora There have been loads of insightful posts on thread, many who disagree with me or don't share my perspective. It's been really useful.

That isn't the same thing as repeatedly claiming I've said things I didn't.

I'm not sure why you're denying the fact you do this or insult posters when you've already had posts deleted.

This friend was no dope, but she was on the phone to her friends in the following days and she told us the story and how she was pissed off.

We laughed at her and told her she was a gobshite, idiot, mug and versions of that.

She ditched him that evening.
She was embarrassed by how vehement we were.
None of us would have touched a guy with young children not to mind end up sitting in babysitting while they went out.

Cloud cookoo land.
She was some catch and he chased her hard trying to apologise but she was done.

Funnily enough she chose her super high profile job ahead of a family and her equally successful husband and herself are very happily married.

I have two daughters a decade younger than you OP and I will absolutely be giving them the step parenting threads in the future as a salutary tale about being a step parent.

Obviously there are odd posters that have boundaries and decent partners for whom these problems don't arise.

But unfortunately there are just too many kind, loving women who are naively sucked into being free childcare for BOTH parents while effectively told STFU if they offer an opinion.

One poor woman is lying to her husband to leave the house with HER baby and getting nothing but abuse for it.

She couldn't visit her gran without him unable to understand why she wouldn't want to visit with just her baby.

Absolutely batshit.
Poor woman.

Here it is. Again.

And we can add "conceited" as the latest one - it's hard to keep up!

Obviously there are odd posters that have boundaries and decent partners for whom these problems don't arise. But unfortunately there are just too many kind, loving women who are naively sucked into being free childcare for BOTH parents while effectively told STFU if they offer an opinion

Yes @billy1966 - this happened to a relative of mine.

After nine years he broke it off with her and she no longer sees the kids she helped raise.

Christ, @Tandora 🤭 you still here?

Yup. Guess you are too?
you can act like playground bullies all you want as a tactic to shut me down , I’ll reply if I think there’s something worthy of being said 💁🏼‍♀️

@billy1966 Yep my ex neighbour dumped him soon after but unfortunately ended up married to a very sexist entitled man who she also split from.
Now with a younger man who she has been with for years and they are very happy.

I haven’t claimed you said a single thing you haven’t.
I had one post deleted which I immediately apologised for and explained what I meant, and acknowledged was badly worded.

your summary is a load of words entirely plucked out of their context to entirely misrepresent them, which I already have tried my best to at least partially respond to.

As for your last accusation of “throwing insults”, I said it was
conceited for a person to take a virtuous position about how someone else should behave in a difficult situation of which they have no direct personal experience.
I stand by that statement; That is not “throwing insults”. It’s a perfectly reasonable point, and one you might well consider. I understand you don’t like it.

@floralarrangement

Also perhaps you could clarify what you have found useful as
you claim? I haven’t seen you acknowledge or take on board a single thing that someone who has genuinely disagreed with you has said- but maybe I’ve missed it 💁🏼‍♀️.

I just checked in on my watched threads and there you were. Still berating the OP with things she didn’t say.

Ok. That’s not true though 💁🏼‍♀️