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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think you tell someone pre going on a date

642 replies

floralarrangement · 04/06/2022 11:42

that you have a 2 year old and a 4 year old?!

Just got back from a brunch date and this was casually brought up. I feel like this is a HUGE deal, especially due to the ages. I don't have children and don't want to date someone who does. I'm 28 so maybe I'll change my mind on this later in life.

I feel like he didn't tell me (and probably other women) in advance as a way of getting dates from people who otherwise would've said no. Is this too harsh? For those of you who do OLD, do you tell people in advance/put it on your profile?

We work together (huge organisation - didn't know of him before & none of my friends do) which meant I felt pressured have a good date with him because I hate awkwardness. I already have one ex-boyfriend at work which I find stressful, I'd rather not make it a pattern with multiple people I have to avoid for one reason or another Grin

OP posts:
pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 17:24

SmellyWellyWoo · 06/06/2022 17:16

We are reducing people to "stock" now, categorised like they are cattle and prime cuts of meat or just worthless mutton (or whatever, I'm not a butcher).

Anyone can date or reject anyone they choose on any factors but the judgements about other oriole's life choices (or not) on this thread are awful.

Just because you choose not to date a certain group of people, it doesn't mean you can castigate them as unworthy or deign them as having made "poor" life choices.

Yes, you can.

It's weird how it's acceptable all over Mumsnet to tell women in their late thirties and early forties they made a mistake by not settling down or having kids earlier, but it's somehow not acceptable to think that having kids in your twenties in an unstable relationship and then looking to date immediately is a poor life choice or shows poor judgement.

Tandora · 06/06/2022 17:25

floralarrangement · 06/06/2022 17:19

Where?!

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe when it comes to this thread.

I have said that no one is obliged to date me, that I know I'm not "special" (as you said), but that I personally don't want to date a man with young children.

I've given a long list of reasons as to why I wouldn't - and pointed out that I'm also not ready to have my own biological children or start the adoption process.

I did ask if you'd have the same reaction if I told a potential partner I wasn't ready for my own kids yet, but you ignored my post.

I think @SmellyWellyWoo was talking about other pps posts where they’ve said single parents have less stock in the dating market and have made poor life choices.

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 17:25

Tandora · 06/06/2022 17:23

It was clear from @Frankola first post that she was speaking hypothetically- trying to put herself in the mindset of a
single parent OLD. She wasn’t lying or making stuff up.

You failed to read her post properly and misinterpreted her words (and then said something quite accusatory in reply). So , yes, that’s on you,

But my reply was also hypothetical. That if she were in that situation, it would be dishonest to not mention her child. Hence there being no 'gotcha' whatsoever, because the point she made is obviously how she thinks - that hiding that you're a parent is acceptable.

ringalingling · 06/06/2022 17:25

@pixie5121 but apparently there are no single parents in these special circles of yours so of course they're not going to be dating them - they're rare unicorns who barely exist according to you!

Since you're adamant this isn't a thread about one dishonest single father and it's actually about entitled single parents and their delusions of grandeur, I will bite.

Here's a delusion for you: you really seem to think "men" (that one big homogeneous group you speak of) would rather have an almost-40 uncompromising career woman who can't / won't have kids, refuses to put the bare minimum effort like mascara into their appearance for dates, judges and looks down her nose at other women, makes a huge deal about how independent they are and how their life is so busy, and wants to sleep in separate beds, than someone ten years younger who looks after themselves and a home and will meet them halfway, simply because they already have a child (which is the thing these men want btw - we're talking about men who want to settle down with partners and wives and who have friends a-plenty to go out and get drunk with and don't need that from you).

We both think the other one is delusional. Why don't we put it down to running in different circles maybe? In my circle, the professional males 30-40 who bow out after I explain I have a child is about 1 in 8. Far more don't care than do, but I've already tried to establish they're looking for more serious / long term. Most of them show an interest / thank me for my honesty etc. The worst response I've had was "that's good you have children it shows you're fertile and I will want them in the near future" lmao. A doctor so maybe he's seen the whole TTC thing too many times it's turned him clinical 😂 Everyone else has been perfectly polite and reassuring (or the 1 in 8ish who explain politely why it wouldn't work and wish me well).

Are we the top of the dating pile while the highest stock value? Absolutely fucking not.

But we're not the social pariahs you seem to think we are either.

Again, huge generalisation (because that's your preferred language) but "men" value age, body type, appearance, typical femaleness, kindness, attention etc far more than they care about your independence or your career or how 'fun' you are. That's typically what women value. You're very sneery or dismissive about the former qualities but you have their values backwards.

If the type of men you are meeting / dating are the ones giving you this impression then I'd kindly suggest you're probably dating the ones who are looking for carefree fun. Which is fine. If that's what you want. Although I suspect it really isn't.

Anyway, I'm well aware you're probably set in your attitudes so all I can say is I hope they work out for you and you find someone who values the things you do. And I mean that genuinely.

floralarrangement · 06/06/2022 17:26

It was clear from @Frankola first post that she was speaking hypothetically- trying to put herself in the mindset of a single parent OLD. She wasn’t lying or making stuff up.

@Tandora a couple of posts ago you were saying it was "conceited" for anyone to have an opinon on being a single parent if they have "never really been in that situation oneself"

But when they agree with you it's all fine?

OP posts:
floralarrangement · 06/06/2022 17:29

@Suprima

I think you may be right!

OP posts:
mmmmmmghturep · 06/06/2022 17:29

I know that as an overweight woman i would have a limited dating pool if i was single and if i wanted to use dating apps. There have been threads on here in the past about how people are entitled to this preference. Which they are You like what you like. But why is it ok to have some preferences but not others How many on here having a go at the OP would date an overweight man.

Tandora · 06/06/2022 17:32

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 17:25

But my reply was also hypothetical. That if she were in that situation, it would be dishonest to not mention her child. Hence there being no 'gotcha' whatsoever, because the point she made is obviously how she thinks - that hiding that you're a parent is acceptable.

Yes true, but then you started accusing her of lying/ making stuff up? Anyways clearly a misunderstanding!

Tandora · 06/06/2022 17:34

mmmmmmghturep · 06/06/2022 17:29

I know that as an overweight woman i would have a limited dating pool if i was single and if i wanted to use dating apps. There have been threads on here in the past about how people are entitled to this preference. Which they are You like what you like. But why is it ok to have some preferences but not others How many on here having a go at the OP would date an overweight man.

To be equivalent OP would have had a to start a post saying AIBU my date didn’t mention in advance they were fat!

Frankola · 06/06/2022 17:39

@pixie5121 I'm afraid I'm bowing out of this discussion now.

It's a sorry state of affairs when it seems to be acceptable to people like you to tell strangers on the internet to fuck off. I don't see any point in conversing with someone who finds that appropriate behaviour.

mmmmmmghturep · 06/06/2022 17:43

Yet again more generalisations of child free women. My Twitter and fb bios both have childfree by choice in them. I couldnt give a shit how it makes me look. There is still a lot of sexism towards women who dont want kids. Not men who dont want kids though. Because it doesnt matter if men dont come across as caring or nurturing. I live in social housing and dont have a career. Im 50 next year. But ive known for thirty odd years that i definately didnt/dont want children. Parenthood is not for me. I couldnt give a shit how that makes me look.

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 17:47

@ringalingling the OP is asking a general question, about whether it's OK to not mention that you have kids before going on a date with someone.

I feel genuinely sorry for you and your pickme ways...I fear it's too late for you to be saved. The way you describe me, I've nearly got tears of laughter rolling down my face. I'm 36 years old, I barely look 30, I don't wear much make-up because I'm not a minger (and just BTW, most men in my circles hate caked-on make-up). Uncompromising career woman? Absolutely dying laughing...I work 4 days a week, so have a 3-day weekend every single week, which I often use to go away for the weekend, climbing, hiking, city breaks in Europe. Yeah, brutal. Really hard life.

I've been asked out three times in the past month by men I've met out and about. I've declined them all because I'm not desperate enough to date men for the sake of it unless I really think we would be compatible. You don't seem to get it. Yes, I could wear more make-up and get my nails done and bake some cakes to take along on dates to show them how domesticated and feminine I am. But why? To 'bag a man'? And then what? I've got a shallow manchild looking for a second mother or a trophy wife, to listen to them talk and massage their ego. I guess you'd see that as an achievement.

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 17:48

Frankola · 06/06/2022 17:39

@pixie5121 I'm afraid I'm bowing out of this discussion now.

It's a sorry state of affairs when it seems to be acceptable to people like you to tell strangers on the internet to fuck off. I don't see any point in conversing with someone who finds that appropriate behaviour.

I didn't tell anyone to fuck off. One of your posts did get deleted for personal abuse (and I didn't report it), so maybe take a look in the mirror. Have a nice life.

Frankola · 06/06/2022 18:36

@pixie5121 in your post timed either 17.11 or 17.13 you told me to fuck off.

Those posts have been deleted by mumsnet.

I reported you for saying fuck off in your post. Please do not lie to serve your twaddle

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 18:39

Frankola · 06/06/2022 18:36

@pixie5121 in your post timed either 17.11 or 17.13 you told me to fuck off.

Those posts have been deleted by mumsnet.

I reported you for saying fuck off in your post. Please do not lie to serve your twaddle

I did not. I can't remember what I wrote but I 100% did not write 'fuck off'. You're a liar.

Butchyrestingface · 06/06/2022 18:46

I don't wear much make-up because I'm not a minger

😐

AchatAVendre · 06/06/2022 18:50

Ringalingaling Here's a delusion for you: you really seem to think "men" (that one big homogeneous group you speak of) would rather have an almost-40 uncompromising career woman who can't / won't have kids, refuses to put the bare minimum effort like mascara into their appearance for dates, judges and looks down her nose at other women, makes a huge deal about how independent they are and how their life is so busy, and wants to sleep in separate beds, than someone ten years younger who looks after themselves and a home and will meet them halfway, simply because they already have a child (which is the thing these men want btw - we're talking about men who want to settle down with partners and wives and who have friends a-plenty to go out and get drunk with and don't need that from you).

What on earth is an uncompromising career woman? Is it a woman with a job that earns more than pin money?

Imagine having to not have a well paid career and meet random men "halfway" just in case they might want to settle down?

Are these men really worth it?

What if they are uncompromising career men? Do they need a wifey to assist them in this endeavour? How well paid does a career have to be in order to be uncompromising?

We both think the other one is delusional. Why don't we put it down to running in different circles maybe? In my circle, the professional males 30-40 who bow out after I explain I have a child is about 1 in 8. Far more don't care than do, but I've already tried to establish they're looking for more serious / long term. Most of them show an interest / thank me for my honesty etc. The worst response I've had was "that's good you have children it shows you're fertile and I will want them in the near future" lmao. A doctor so maybe he's seen the whole TTC thing too many times it's turned him clinical 😂 Everyone else has been perfectly polite and reassuring (or the 1 in 8ish who explain politely why it wouldn't work and wish me well).

Can't you just accept that you just want to date different men? But surely being a mother, you would find it a bit strange that a man with 2 such very young children was trying to date so soon after the second was born and perhaps not take him as a serious or reliable prospect?

I don't even do online dating and I've heard the fertility line from a non-doctor. He would surely need to be a particular type of doctor, e.g. a GP or working in a fertility related field for that to work though. Its not impressive really, given how many accidental pregnancies and high levels of fertility there are around. I've also had idiot men suggest that theres something wrong with me for not having kids. Not particularly well paid men compared to me, so perhaps they aren't uncompromising enough. But yes, it is a thing amongst some men, that they like women to come with children and then have children with them, so the possibilities of them becoming uncompromising are almost permanently stifled I guess. I've also been told that I'm "selfish* for not wanting kids.

If I were single, I'd absolutely hate to date any of these men. But I don't even have any male friends in my social circle who are dating women with kids. People just move in different circles, if you go about suggesting that women should question men on whether they have kids or not and thats not at all common in that circle then it will come across as weird. Equally, there seems to be some social circles where having kids by a certain age is almost expected, or so it seems.

What I actually have in my social circle is a lot of male engineers who do sports but still fail to meet women through them and who marry women from rather poorer countries who are desperate to marry a western man. This wouldn't be possible with kids as they presumably would struggle to get a visa and so they are definitely not looking for women with kids. I think that just illustrates how different the circles people move in really.

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 18:53

Butchyrestingface · 06/06/2022 18:46

I don't wear much make-up because I'm not a minger

😐

Oh my God...a woman who is aware she's not horrifically ugly and doesn't feel pressured into wearing £200 of Mac products on a date...someone call the police. The absolute horror.

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 18:57

Yes, it's so funny how having a job that pays the bills and rent/mortgage makes you an 'uncompromising career woman', compared to what....having a shitty, low paid job and hoping a man will come along? Imagine intentionally putting yourself in such a dangerous, precarious financial position just so men don't think you're a ......gasp......career woman.

AchatAVendre · 06/06/2022 19:06

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 18:57

Yes, it's so funny how having a job that pays the bills and rent/mortgage makes you an 'uncompromising career woman', compared to what....having a shitty, low paid job and hoping a man will come along? Imagine intentionally putting yourself in such a dangerous, precarious financial position just so men don't think you're a ......gasp......career woman.

A strange attitude, because although I suppose I might be labelled one of those uncompromising career women that men apparently don't want (other than DH I guess, lucky lucky me), I'd honestly rather not work for a living if I was independently wealthy.

Is there really this image in some people's heads of women that just work for the love of their career, and not to buy nice stuff (e.g. a house) or for fear of a disciplinary for not meeting targets, etc.? Surely no decent man is going to have a problem with that? I'd assume that any that did would be of the controlling, possibly abusive variety...

I'd still be reluctant to date a man with kids if I was single.

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 19:14

AchatAVendre · 06/06/2022 19:06

A strange attitude, because although I suppose I might be labelled one of those uncompromising career women that men apparently don't want (other than DH I guess, lucky lucky me), I'd honestly rather not work for a living if I was independently wealthy.

Is there really this image in some people's heads of women that just work for the love of their career, and not to buy nice stuff (e.g. a house) or for fear of a disciplinary for not meeting targets, etc.? Surely no decent man is going to have a problem with that? I'd assume that any that did would be of the controlling, possibly abusive variety...

I'd still be reluctant to date a man with kids if I was single.

Yes. Some women have very sadly swallowed every bit of that bullshit from the patriarchy that 'career women' just work to pay for expensive luxuries or for the joy of having a career. As if our rent and bills and food are free until we meet a man.

I love how apparently 'career women' don't look after themselves or a home either. News to me that I have less time and money for the gym, running, yoga, pilates, facials, decent skincare than a single mother. News to me that my body looks worse than that of someone who has had a child. News to me that not having a child means you don't look after a home. WTF?

Even the 'attention' point is ludicrous...how does a woman with a child have more time and energy to spend with a man she's dating than one without?

Bizarre.

mmmmmmghturep · 06/06/2022 19:24

Those low income jobs still have to be done by someone. Ive always been on a low income (but im not currently working) but that doesnt mean i would put up with crap men.

pixie5121 · 06/06/2022 19:35

mmmmmmghturep · 06/06/2022 19:24

Those low income jobs still have to be done by someone. Ive always been on a low income (but im not currently working) but that doesnt mean i would put up with crap men.

That's not really the point though. It's that the tired 'career woman' stereotype is often trotted out about single 30-something women when really, it's just having a fucking job so you can support yourself. Like, what else are you supposed to do? Men aren't ever called 'career men', are they? They get to do whatever job they like without being shamed for it.

whumpthereitis · 06/06/2022 19:35

Fucking hell, this thread. Everyone will have different social circles, and having children/not having children and dating parents/not dating parents can be both unusual AND usual, depending entirely on what your social circle is.

Children require extra consideration, some people are open to that and others aren’t. It’s better to be upfront as to your extra baggage so as to not waste your own time, or anyone else’s.

mmmmmmghturep · 06/06/2022 19:37

@pixie5121 oh i completely agree. Im also fed up of the assumptions about the child free by choice.