Confused about where I stand- FWB

[Applesandlemons19]

Hi

I am posting here for some advice as I’m confused at the moment. I have been seeing someone for a while and it has been FWB/casual. I’m not sure where I stand though as the last few times we have seen each other he has been kissing and cuddling me. We chat for hours and he makes me laugh. He also sends me texts such as ‘good night beautiful’ and others like that.

Is this typical of FWB? I’m not sure what his thoughts are but I have started to develop feelings.

There is a few red flags though because he never arranges a day to next meet. He will ring me and ask to see me on the day or ask what I’m doing later. Sometimes it can be 10pm at night. I never know when I’m next going to see him. It could be 2 days or a week, I just never know until he decides he would like to see me. Sometimes he will blow hot and cold. He will be texting all day sometimes then others not at all.

If this was just casual sex to him would he be kissing me and staying to cuddle after and sending me texts like that?

As I’ve said I posted to say FWB do turn into more, because people were saying they couldn’t and the man would never care for her - or worse was manipulating and using her.

Firstly, women are well aware that some FWB turn into more, on account of the fact that we have experienced relationship and so have all our friends, who we discuss dating with,

Secondly, people were saying that he sounded like he's potentially using her and manipulating her largely because of the following:

He is quite a bit older than me. I feel like he is enjoying the fact I like him and that he has ‘power’ over me because I go running as soon as he asks to see me.

Power dynamic is extremely unhealthy and not balanced.

I must admit on a few occasions I have tried to slow things down and I’ve even told him I felt I was more interested than he was. He ‘steps his game up’ when I say things like that but a couple days later we are back to square one and he is being the same.

He plays games when he thinks she's backing off.

He said things along the lines of ‘we could be something special’ ‘I like you a lot and I want to see where things go’. I know these are just words and I think all he was trying to do was convince me to meet him. Now we have met it is clear it is purely sexual relationship for him and he isn’t looking for more.

He wasn't honest about his intentions at the start.

OP is absolutely accountable for her part in this in that if she's not getting what she wants out of the relationship then she should walk away rather than holding onto hope if he's been clear he doesn't want more.

But your advice wasn't just that FWB can turn into relationships (which we all know anyway!) it was that women should pretend to be "chill" and not want anything more even if they do want more. That they should be something they're not in order to attract a man... who then would like the false version of them not the real one, rendering it utterly pointless.

FWB can be great if both parties are on the same page, having fun and enjoying it. FWB cannot be great for both parties if one of them is pretending to be ok with the arrangement while actually feeling anxious and having plummeting self esteem while thinking if they keep shagging the bloke long enough and are "chill" enough then eventually he'll want a relationship.

It’s unfourtunate for some women that their feelings don’t match up with that social reality, but they’ll get there. For them that can get past that though, the options are endless.

My whole body cringed reading this!

"They'll get there" 😂 the most laughably condescending phrase on here yet. And that's saying something.

Plenty of us are in happy, healthy, fun relationships with people who treat us well, respect us, have a laugh with us, having a great sex life, cheers.

And we don't even have to polish golf clubs and knead bread and listen to our partner bang on about how brilliant they are. We are equals. I know that sounds crazy to you. But you'll get there.

And meanwhile there is an OP hurting and in a quandary.

And anyone who may have given her the ultimate pearl of wisdom about how to proceed? It will be lost amidst the posts explaining why some girls just need to be chill and accepting and saying that fwb is the only way forward.

And if this OP, who is already hurting by the sounds of it, follows this advice with this particular friend, she is setting herself up for heartbreak.

She already feels used. She already thinks he is keeping her dangling. If he was in any way decent or aware of her feelings, she wouldn’t be feeling this way.

This is what I wanted to say but better.

That's a very divisive attitude and viewpoint to hold. And it's just wrong to claim that it's impossible to empathise with someone unless you share their exact same identity. Of course I realise that kind of thinking is all the rage amongst those who think identity politics is really important, but I don't subscribe to that point of view. It's destructive, creates divisions and disharmony, and only serves those who seek to fragment society, and in this particular case, harm relations between men and women.

If I recall correctly, the OP has been back earlier today, and commented that she found the posts to be 'a very interesting read'.

@YorkshireDude

Genuine question - If you were a white bloke (I don't know if you are or not but for arguments sake) would you honestly say to a black man that because you know some black men, or many black men, your opinion about the experience of being black is "just as valid" as that of him, a black man?

Because that's basically what you're saying here! Nobody is saying all women are the same, they're saying that as women we have a much deeper understanding of the myriad experiences that women go through from birth and throughout adulthood, therefore a deeper understanding of one another than you as a man could possible have of women.

You’d be hard-pushed to find many of us on here who support ‘identity politics’.

And you - empathise?! The bloke who wanged on about sickly sweet rollercoasters of emotions, and thought he has any actual credibility?!

This thread is an utter farce.

Sorry OP. I do hope you’ve got something helpful from it.

Would you speak for a black person?
Would you speak for a disabled person?
If yes, then stop it.
If no, then why do you think it's ok to speak for women? Especially to women.

"Empathise" all you like. But don't ever talk as if you actually know what it is like for women.

Please quote me where I said it was impossible for a man to empathise with a woman. I didn’t.

I said: You will never understand what it’s like to be a woman.

That’s it. You will never understand the experiences of women. So again, stop speaking on behalf of women. How many times do we need to say it?

Interesting is not the same as helpful.

She also said in that post he wasn’t entirely upfront about his intentions and that sex was the only thing on the table.

She thinks he misled her from the start. So nothing like a fwb situation. And unlikely to progress.

Yapping on about fwb being the way forward in this particular instance is not helpful.

I know it’s cool these days to make out arrangements like this are totally ok and ultra normal but this shows why in reality it’s not. Most women have some sort of positive feelings for the people they choose to have sex with… if it was really a FWB arrangement then there would not be any of this angst whatsoever.

LOL! Well, most women have never been a man, but they're all happy to spout their beliefs about men here, including claims that men don't want female friends, and don't want kissing and cuddling in a FWB situation. The world would be a better place if we all treated each other as unique humans with unique experiences and desires, and forget about all the identities and labels.

@YorkshireDude

You didn't answer my question, which I thought would help you understand what people are saying to you.

Here it is again:

Genuine question - If you were a white bloke (I don't know if you are or not but for arguments sake) would you honestly say to a black man that because you know some black men, or many black men, your opinion about the experience of being black is "just as valid" as that of him, a black man?

So would you?

You can say it any number of times, and I'll still think it's unhelpful.

And saying that someone can never understand seems like a good way of setting back relations between men and women.

In fact, your entire approach to this topic is very adversarial and unconstructive.

Do you regard men as 'the enemy', because that's how it's coming across.

I'm not here to debate race and racism.

And I note that you ignored my comments about the women here who are attempting to represent men's views.

@YorkshireDude

You can say it any number of times, and I'll still think it's unhelpful

What? That you will never understand what’s it like to a be a woman? You won’t. Ever. Get over it.

And saying that someone can never understand seems like a good way of setting back relations between men and women

It’s fact though. Isn’t it. If you’re so set on the relations between men and women, do some fucking research and channel your energy into something productive.

In fact, your entire approach to this topic is very adversarial and unconstructive

This isn’t your thread. It was started by the OP. I gave the OP advice based on my own experiences of being in a similar position. I’m not here to enlighten you.

Do you regard men as 'the enemy', because that's how it's coming across.

Only misogynistic creeps like yourself and Mr Weener.

God the two guys posting here are weirdos.
A site mainly for women. No I apologise for that: a subject aimed at women - because of course sleepless nights with a young baby affects women AND men and it's right men contribute.
And here they are chipping in.
Assuming women are just men like them.
Just bloody weird.

@YorkshireDude

Didn't think you'd answer. Which is an answer in itself. You strike me as an "I don't see colour" person from your comments re identity.

I'm not here to debate race and racism.

And there we have it.

Point beautifully made, @wellhelloitsme

Ooh you shouldn't feel bad about being a man's f*buddy.
Yes. Yes you should because he's not really your friend and he's keeping his options open in case hotter woman come along.
That's the truth of it.

So bloody what if there are exceptions where the man miraculously falls for his f *buddy! They're the exceptions not the rule.

Most men with fwb's regard their fwb as a convenient orifice.
And I won't have a couple of weird guys here tell me otherwise.

Most men with fwb's regard their fwb as a convenient orifice.
And I won't have a couple of weird guys here tell me otherwise.

Everyone knows this. Even the two weirdos.

I see values and behaviours.

I used to be a regular reader of The Guardian for about 10 years. When they went down the identity politics road, and shut down reader comments on most articles, I just gave up. Probably only look at their website once a week now.

And Weener has a vested interested in encouraging girls to ‘be chill’ and hang in there for their ‘friend’, until they decide. Even though every last one of us knows most men (and many women) go into it with zero intention of it turning into anything.

Because any encouragement to walk away onto something (someone) better means the pool of no-strings-attached sex dries up.

So?

Would you speak for black men? Or disabled people?