Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Confused about where I stand- FWB

317 replies

Applesandlemons19 · 29/05/2022 22:55

Hi

I am posting here for some advice as I’m confused at the moment. I have been seeing someone for a while and it has been FWB/casual. I’m not sure where I stand though as the last few times we have seen each other he has been kissing and cuddling me. We chat for hours and he makes me laugh. He also sends me texts such as ‘good night beautiful’ and others like that.

Is this typical of FWB? I’m not sure what his thoughts are but I have started to develop feelings.

There is a few red flags though because he never arranges a day to next meet. He will ring me and ask to see me on the day or ask what I’m doing later. Sometimes it can be 10pm at night. I never know when I’m next going to see him. It could be 2 days or a week, I just never know until he decides he would like to see me. Sometimes he will blow hot and cold. He will be texting all day sometimes then others not at all.

If this was just casual sex to him would he be kissing me and staying to cuddle after and sending me texts like that?

OP posts:
wellhelloitsme · 01/06/2022 18:20

@LongFatWeener69

I haven’t made a single comment telling women how they feel

I mean...

And this encourages the OP to see her self as somehow played and a victim of this man, when in reality she’s not, she just feels like she is because she wants more than has actually ever been offered.

AchatAVendre · 01/06/2022 18:21

I don’t know what a PUA is and I’m none of those things. I came on here to dispute people saying that a man who was FWB with a chick would never want more or that he was being disrespectful - because I know for sure that both of those things are untrue. Don’t understand why that’s caused such a stir.

Its the way you use language. You come across as a bit of a twat. hth.

However If I had to speculate, she supports what I do and I think enjoys being with someone like me, likes to be a part of it. It is true that she does most things on the domestic front

and I appreciate that, however she tells me she’s more open with me than she’s ever been with anyone and I do believe I know her very very well and understand what she wants and needs psychologically, probably better than any other man has or ever could, despite what people here have said.
I would guess I’m easy to live with, treat her well, fine with parents and sisters being around whenever, actually one of her sisters lives with us - in fact I prefer it that way and don’t know why other men discourage that kind of thing, the dummies don’t seem to understand it lessens the pressure on them to do a emotional act, because their wives can satisfy some of that side of themselves with female relatives. We are compatible in lifestyle and enjoy that kind of family communal living - I could go on but you get my drift.

I think you did go on. Its more than a bloody drift. Its a self-obsessed monologue! I'm not sure that many women outside your particular demographic would tolerate either communal living or referring to people as "dummies" but read on...

The reason being that guys like that have never taken the time to work out why people (in this case women), feel the things they do

I think you're trying to cover too many eventualities in one sentence in order to appear convincing. It doesn't really work. Try to build up your argument more skilfully. When you provide too much information like this, it creates the presumption that you are lying.

Forums like this may give that impression because obviously non bitter people won’t be posting.

Why are you so bitter?

That’s why men like the kind of woman who are open to FWB - because they have shown they actually care about what their men want and don’t freak easy, the alternative of that just being one sided dating expectations which don’t make sense in the modern world, as though we were back in the days of yore courting yon fair ladies. You might say they know something about men that the strictly dating type don’t.

Yes, but many women don't like the kind of men who do FWB and would turn them down if they have a history of it.

But anyway, there are lots of chill ladies who go for that type of thing, sure they might hope it will become more - maybe it will and maybe it won’t, point is that’s how it’s done. Makes perfect sense in todays world, it’s not some terrible thing

The way speak, like some ageing DJ who's been to Miami once on holiday and never got over it, is cringe. Apologies if you are an ageing DJ from Miami!

And I think your underestimating the amount of serious relationships and even marriage that come from FWB or super casual situations - that’s just a way relationships develop in the modern world, there’s nothing wrong with it. I mean really it was inevitable after realisable birth control came around.
I don’t know why you think it’s so awful or new, people have been doing this since the 70’s and plenty of women are along for the ride. And if they wanted other more uptight men they could have them, that’s their choice.

Well, I think that might be true where theres a lot of lying involved because for most women, being exclusive when you are having sex is really quite important.

OK, I cut and pasted some of your verbosity because it amused me but serious point: not everyone is from your demographic. I'm a lawyer, most of my friends met at university or in social or sports clubs after university and are married to doctors, other lawyers, dentists, teachers, lecturers, successful tradesmen, farmers, etc. Obviously its not compulsory but it is fairly traditional still and quite a number of them are surprisingly somewhat religious and not into the same things you are because of it. This is quite a large demographic. Its also quite a wealthy demographic, not least because their personal lives don't use up a lot of their energy and they make good decisions throughout life. Of course there are exceptions; some people cheat, some get divorced but generally if you want to be wealthy, don't make dating and marital mistakes.

A lot of it involves socialising but at dinner parties or garden parties or feature events, which often means valuable work or business through contacts and I honestly cannot imagine the horror of taking someone like you to a social event with your tendency to talk in the way you do. What an embarrassment.

I've vaguely known about 3 men like you (through the sport I do) and no-one admires them. They bounce from one casual relationship to another, where they generally move in with the woman quite quickly, and develop all of these world weary views about how they "understand women" based on multiple failed relationships which they like to paint in a golden light to cover up the figures of derision they have become. They generally end up getting married in their late forties or fifties to whichever woman they are with at the time, because they realise they are struggling at that stage to find a woman at all. I do know several who have gone down the route of marrying women they barely know from The Phillipines or Thailand, some of them end up divorced, some stay married.

Its probably your social circle which makes you think what you are describing is more common than it is.

I tried online dating very briefly (6 weeks) between serious relationships. There were men like you who used language in that distinctive weird, cynical way that you do and there wasn't a single one worth even meeting up with. It was block, block, block after a few messages of that kind of drivel. Absolute bloody nightmares. You all tend to use the same phrases: "chicks" - seriously? Are you 10? Or they would say "females" or if you told them you weren't interested they would say "Now that you've got over that little outburst". Its like your own special little language. Or it would be "I'm looking for a woman who"...followed by a long list of dreary demands when the picture showed an unsmiling, wrinkled, ageing, balding individual with poor vasodilation indicators and a paunch.

You're an absolute nightmare. Who could listen to that fishwifey drivel going on endlessly? Who would want a man that spends his time trying to infiltrate a website mainly used by women in order to impart his "wisdom" on how to be sleazy? I recently had someone who talked like this come to my house to do some work. He kept moaning about his current relationship (lived with his girlfriend) told me about his past relationship, shared his views on relationships in general and liked my house rather too much! The ex and he had argued too much (as apparently she was this and that although then again she wasn't too bad (might take him back if the current one turfs him out clearly) tbh if I never hear that annoying bloody fishwifey man again I will be grateful! I put up with it for 2 days only because I really, really wanted the work done and at the end I blocked him everywhere, just in case he tried to contact me. Absolutely unbearable.

The reality is (and bearing in mind you are demonstrating classic signs of Dunning-Kruger syndrome) that most women would turn you down, or just generally avoid you. Your view is A-typical and related purely to the social group who will put up with you.

Oh, if you're really good looking - not the pretendy good looking that some men imagine themselves to be because they have two eyes, a nose and a mouth, but male model-esque, you just might get more chances with the not so gullible. In general, as the OP shows, this sort of thing with this sort of man just drags you down and women are more and more choosing to be single rather put up with this drivel. There used to be a lot of pressure on women to be in a couple, now not so much. Times are a changing, and men like you sound like dinosaurs desperately fighting for the last piece of earth with the biodiversity to suit them.

I know you will reply to this very carefully in an attempt to show me the error of my ways/what I am missing/how foolishly feminine my views are, and honestly, I will try to read it and post a pithy reply, but then again, I might not just bother as there are just an awful lot more pleasant people out there to spend time with.

OP- I think if you get away from this awful man who is dragging you down, the sooner the better, you are more likely to have a better life.

wellhelloitsme · 01/06/2022 18:23

It sounds like you want mumsnet to be an echo chamber. Am I understanding that right?

Wanting to be rid of misogynists doesn't count as wanting an echo chamber.

I would rather there weren't racists or homophobes on here too, for example.

Not because I want an echo chamber but because I fundamentally disagree with misogyny, racism and homophobia.

BadNomad · 01/06/2022 18:24

YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 18:11

Well, if there are women who aren't yet aware that some women like a specific type of relationship dynamic, and no woman has yet explained it to them, then there's always the possibility that a man may end up being the first to explain it to them.

I don't really see that as a bad thing. And in my experience it's only those who are obsessed with identity politics, and/or actively seeking something to get outraged about, who worry about the identity of the person that shared some piece of knowledge.

I'll save you some time in the future with this - there is nothing about women that we don't already know, so you don't need to explain anything to us. We know there are all types of women. We know women seek all different kinds of things from relationships. We also know why some women are attracted to toxic men. We also know why some women stay in unhealthy relationships. We also know some women are the way they are because they don't realise they deserve better.

Believe me, we know more than you ever will.

AchatAVendre · 01/06/2022 18:26

LongFatWeener69 · 01/06/2022 18:13

@Kertrats

I think your projecting your own feelings about FWB onto me and my relationship which you can’t possibly know. You really haven’t “put the wind up” me at all, actually from your comments about emotional and romantic attraction not being possible for me because she was a FWB and one day I would meet a woman who “wowed” me, I don’t think your really understand how men love women. That’s alright, but as such you really can’t comment on how I actually feel and what you have commented is quite inaccurate.

But I get the feeling this thread will devolve into those who disagree with my inoffensive comments congratulating themselves on how clever they think they’re being in “winning” a simple discussion about FWB, the crux of which was simply whether it is possible that they can become more (it is) and what the man the OP is FWB for might be thinking - about which they have very little insight but for whatever reason can’t accept a man may have, which is ironic given all the comments about men mansplaining women to women.

I don't think they're trying to "win" an argument. I think they're trying to hone their skills in recognising and avoiding sleazy men. Also how to turn them down effectively.

YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 18:30

Kertrats · 01/06/2022 18:18

@YorkshireDude I'll confess that there is some excitement in a man who doesn't reveal every aspect about himself in a relationship.
Key word: relationship as in you know he's into you. Really into you.

But this is not what happens in an fwb arrangement.
There is zero excitement in a guy just wanting you to be a friend he has sex with. None.
In any case, why would he want a female friend anyway. It's really easy sex dressed up with some pizza nights.
It's boring. That's why I won't do it. No romantic spark or emotional intrigue holds no appeal for me at all.

There is zero excitement in a guy just wanting you to be a friend he has sex with. None.
That's fine. Each to their own. But if I recall correctly there was a woman on here just the other week, seeking advice on finding a FWB. She missed not having sex, but didn't want a relationship, or wasn't ready for a relationship (I've forgotten the precise details).

In any case, why would he want a female friend anyway. It's really easy sex dressed up with some pizza nights.
Because some men genuinely enjoy a woman's company, talking to them, listening to them, learning how they think, sharing and debating ideas. I am one of those men.

It's boring. That's why I won't do it. No romantic spark or emotional intrigue holds no appeal for me at all.
Fair enough. Nobody is going to force you. And those who like it should be left alone to get on with what they enjoy.

YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 18:39

BadNomad · 01/06/2022 18:24

I'll save you some time in the future with this - there is nothing about women that we don't already know, so you don't need to explain anything to us. We know there are all types of women. We know women seek all different kinds of things from relationships. We also know why some women are attracted to toxic men. We also know why some women stay in unhealthy relationships. We also know some women are the way they are because they don't realise they deserve better.

Believe me, we know more than you ever will.

That's good. Just as long as you don't judge those other women for seeking a type of relationship that you don't approve of.

FlissyPaps · 01/06/2022 18:45

That's good. Just as long as you don't judge those other women for seeking a type of relationship that you don't approve of.

Just stop speaking on behalf of women, for the love of God.

LongFatWeener69 · 01/06/2022 18:49

@AchatAVendre

Congratulations on posting your own novel while actually calling someone else verbose. I guess my main take away from your comment is that you are bitter and weary from online dating and FWB situations and like to associate yourself with your married friends who are so unlike the men who do FWB or online dating (which you seem to know a lot about and have strong views on) you think your above. And perhaps you think you deserve better than what you’ve got because your a lawyer and you think someone of your “circle” should be above that.

But mainly reading your comment I was just puzzled as to why you are so embittered about FWB working out to be more sometimes. Oh - and I was bored, very bored. That may be the source of some of the problems you’ve had.

wellhelloitsme · 01/06/2022 18:52

LongFatWeener69 · 01/06/2022 18:49

@AchatAVendre

Congratulations on posting your own novel while actually calling someone else verbose. I guess my main take away from your comment is that you are bitter and weary from online dating and FWB situations and like to associate yourself with your married friends who are so unlike the men who do FWB or online dating (which you seem to know a lot about and have strong views on) you think your above. And perhaps you think you deserve better than what you’ve got because your a lawyer and you think someone of your “circle” should be above that.

But mainly reading your comment I was just puzzled as to why you are so embittered about FWB working out to be more sometimes. Oh - and I was bored, very bored. That may be the source of some of the problems you’ve had.

If you're bored perhaps polish your own golf clubs, knead some bread for you both or do something nice for your fiancé that is thoughtful and entirely for her rather than for your own benefit.

And no, that doesn't include preaching about 'what women are like' to her - your self important waffle isn't the treat you think it is!

YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 18:53

FlissyPaps · 01/06/2022 18:45

That's good. Just as long as you don't judge those other women for seeking a type of relationship that you don't approve of.

Just stop speaking on behalf of women, for the love of God.

The experiences and desires of the women I've met and spoken to, have the exact same validity as the experiences and desires of the women you've met and spoken to.

AchatAVendre · 01/06/2022 18:54

LongFatWeener69 · 01/06/2022 18:49

@AchatAVendre

Congratulations on posting your own novel while actually calling someone else verbose. I guess my main take away from your comment is that you are bitter and weary from online dating and FWB situations and like to associate yourself with your married friends who are so unlike the men who do FWB or online dating (which you seem to know a lot about and have strong views on) you think your above. And perhaps you think you deserve better than what you’ve got because your a lawyer and you think someone of your “circle” should be above that.

But mainly reading your comment I was just puzzled as to why you are so embittered about FWB working out to be more sometimes. Oh - and I was bored, very bored. That may be the source of some of the problems you’ve had.

You're not very accurate then. As I stated, I am happily married and have done the sum total of six weeks online dating in my life. Although I didn't meet anyone. Thank god.

But why are you so terribly interested in other people's private lives? You're unusually invested in convincing women that what you say is correct.

Can I suggest you leave your keyboard and go and do some sport or activity or something? You might get a bit of a better perspective on life that way. I didn't actually count your multitude of posts on this thread, but there must be around 30. Its a sunny evening - go and get some healthy fresh air instead of wondering about other people's private lives.

Kertrats · 01/06/2022 18:55

@YorkshireDude well OK that's you but most men don't want female friends. You can't deny it. The 'f' in fwb is usually not present.
It's just a way of getting regular sex.
And that's fair enough too.
I posted to say that it's not a binary choice between fwb and full-on commitment on the first date.

There's a really nice dance of push and pull between two people who are romantically and emotionally attracted to each other, know what I mean.

The other guy Longweener suggested fwb was now the only way forward. He's wrong.

RenegadeMatron · 01/06/2022 19:02

What do you two actually get out of posting on Mumsnet?

I don’t know a single man worth his salt who’d hang out on here.

The ONLY reason men come on here is to explain everything to women.

RenegadeMatron · 01/06/2022 19:07

Actual footage of Random Yorkshire Man and Random Weener in their Mum’s basement….

Confused about where I stand- FWB
YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 19:12

Kertrats · 01/06/2022 18:55

@YorkshireDude well OK that's you but most men don't want female friends. You can't deny it. The 'f' in fwb is usually not present.
It's just a way of getting regular sex.
And that's fair enough too.
I posted to say that it's not a binary choice between fwb and full-on commitment on the first date.

There's a really nice dance of push and pull between two people who are romantically and emotionally attracted to each other, know what I mean.

The other guy Longweener suggested fwb was now the only way forward. He's wrong.

I think FWB is many different things to many different people. It really depends on the relationship dynamic. For example, whether one person prefers being more submissive or more dominant.

As for FWB being the only way forward, I think that the sexual revolution (easy access to contraception) has had a huge role to play in how modern relationships progress, and more recently online dating has also had an impact. The advent of FWB is part of that progression, and people can do it that way, or more traditionally.

FlissyPaps · 01/06/2022 19:15

YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 18:53

The experiences and desires of the women I've met and spoken to, have the exact same validity as the experiences and desires of the women you've met and spoken to.

Big difference my dude, you are not and never will be a woman.

LongFatWeener69 · 01/06/2022 19:17

@AchatAVendre

As I’ve said I posted to say FWB do turn into more, because people were saying they couldn’t and the man would never care for her - or worse was manipulating and using her. She can end her FWB if she wants, but there is a real chance it could become more. Obviously some here have strong feelings about the whole FWB situation and so attach these feelings to all women in a FWB type thing and hearing that angered them. For whatever reason you were among them. I don’t know why and I don’t care.

As for it being lovely outside “right now”, you know the internet is world wide right? Not just where you live?

EmmaH2022 · 01/06/2022 19:20

I have lost the plot slightly on who said what

The poster who said "why would a man want a female friend" - is that a man or woman and I wonder if that poster generally thinks friendship has no value?

As someone seeking friends, MN is a real downer!

OP, you feel rubbish, so stop. Listen to the Bleachers - Stop Making This Hurt!

Anonymoussssss · 01/06/2022 19:22

Actions speak louder than words. If he wanted more, you would not be left guessing.

YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 19:23

FlissyPaps · 01/06/2022 19:15

Big difference my dude, you are not and never will be a woman.

So what? From a first hand perspective, you will only ever represent the views of just one woman (yourself). All the other women's views you represent are taken second hand from other women, and that's no different from how I get women's views.

LongFatWeener69 · 01/06/2022 19:26

@Kertrats

FWB is the way foward, most people under say 35 are doing it now and in the future it’s going to become even more so. It’s inevitable old bean, reliable contraception has lead to casual sex slowly losing the social stigma and shame which were intended to keep women from unwanted pregnancies.

Now that unwanted pregnancies aren’t a risk (unless your an idiot), the social stigma to FWB and casual stuff is slipping away and it’s the way to meet spouses and long term partners. It’s unfourtunate for some women that their feelings don’t match up with that social reality, but they’ll get there. For them that can get past that though, the options are endless.

LongFatWeener69 · 01/06/2022 19:27

@EmmaH2022

That was a woman saying that. Weird thing isn’t it?

YorkshireDude · 01/06/2022 19:28

EmmaH2022 · 01/06/2022 19:20

I have lost the plot slightly on who said what

The poster who said "why would a man want a female friend" - is that a man or woman and I wonder if that poster generally thinks friendship has no value?

As someone seeking friends, MN is a real downer!

OP, you feel rubbish, so stop. Listen to the Bleachers - Stop Making This Hurt!

The poster who said "why would a man want a female friend" - is that a man or woman and I wonder if that poster generally thinks friendship has no value?
That was Kertrats. And I'm assuming they are a woman.

I enjoy women's company, and having female friends.

FlissyPaps · 01/06/2022 19:28

@YorkshireDude So what? From a first hand perspective, you will only ever represent the views of just one woman (yourself). All the other women's views you represent are taken second hand from other women, and that's no different from how I get women's views.

You will never understand what it’s like to be a woman. You will never understand how women are treated. No matter how many women you speak to. You will just never get it. Never.

I can relate to other women’s experiences. Because I am one. You can not. Because you aren’t one.

Stop speaking on behalf of women.

Swipe left for the next trending thread