To not understand why the 'woman' question is so hard for politicians to answer?

[Themidnightpig]

Genuinely not sure if I'm missing something here.

Constantly seeing it in the news politicians being unable to answer or getting flustered over the 'do women have penises' question.

Surely the answer is as straight forward as 'No, women don't have penises but some Trans Women do and as a decent society we treat them as women in so far as possible'

Why is this so hard for everyone to grapple with?

IT. IS. TO. THEM.

But that's biological fallacy. Them wanting it to be a penis doesn't make it one.

Yeah course I do.

I listen to my friends talk about people reuniting in next lives, my friend who has had a calling from god and is a minister, I attend christenings, funerals and weddings.

Think that comes under dont be a dick.

Correct.

But does it really matter to you?

But transwomen are men. If they weren't men, they wouldn't be transwomen would they, they would just be .....women?

But the zeitgeist now is acceptance without exception. Which means any man who says he's a woman, no matter how much in bad faith he's doing it, should be in female spaces, centred in every female endeavor and allowed to abuse this system. Those are the people who are the issue, and their TRA flying monkeys. Not old-school transsexuals or radical feminists.

This really sums up my feelings on the matter.

It's frightening how one sided it feels.

I feel strongly about protecting the rights of women and about Safeguarding women, particularly those that are vulnerable. It's absurd that simply pointing out biological fact would probably get me sacked, while abusing someone for stating that fact is applauded

You know that's not what I meant . It's like arguing with a 6 year old.

If you actually believe that transphobia is the official mumsnet stance then you should be ashamed to be on here

i believe that some people are transphobic but i do not believe that the organisation of mumsnet and 99% of its members are

Trans women are trans women. Trans men are trans men.

But as it doesnt fucking kill me to say he or she cause I'm not arrogant, I can just about cope.

The wimpund post really crossed a line for a lot of people.

Before that point it was arguable that Rowling was making a case in a reasoned and potentially persuasive and compelling way.

But wimpund was plainly taking the piss, encouraging derision of language that was inclusive and factually correct.

No harming of women involved, no prisons, toilets, or rapists being called she. No dignity or safety at risk. Just a modernising of language useage to include trans men and non binary people and women in a simple term “people who menstruate”.

There’s no hiding the animosity from that point of no return. Point scoring, laughing at trans people, and making them the butt of “banter”.

The style of derision echoes everything women have objected to for decades about the way men speak about women.

But it’s embraced and beloved by GC feminists and lauded as a starring moment.

You can’t have your cake and eat it. Once you choose to piss-take and make “jokes” at the expense of the people whom you allegedly love and support and wish to live their best lives, you’ve exposed your true self.

Playing to the crowd is irresistible, and it’s what has landed Rowling where she is now.

That's not anyone forcing their beliefs on you. What if they started forcing you to chant certain prayers or mantras (a bit like 'transwomen are women'). What if they started calling you a bigot because you didn't believe in what they believe in? Would you not start taking issue with that just a little bit?

Reindeer, weve met before in previous names
Reindeers are better than people ;)
I dont think the majority do. Sadly the vocal posters on these boards do give that impression.the sad thing is IRL wed probably agree.

I am interested. That's why I'm asking you questions as I simply cannot understand your point of view and have never heard an explanation of it that makes sense.

Your transwomen friends are hurt because they feel like women but they don't menstruate. OK I can understand that. But nothing will ever change that. Denying the biological fact that only women menstruate is not going to change reality for them. They may have all sorts of difficult feelings and I am genuinely sympathetic to them but it doesn't mean everyone else in the world has to deny the reality that only women menstruate.

If someone has fertility struggles and doesn't get pregnant, they are likely to find it difficult for other people to be referred to as parents. Every time they see a friend with a child or hear the word mother or parents they might get that stab of pain. But it doesn't mean that they should ban the word parent being used or co-opt the word mother to mean any women, just because they want to feel more like a parent or a mother. That would be delusional and unhealthy.

I dont believe in God but I accept that people do.

How would you feel living in fear of losing your job because you openly state that you don't believe in god?

But does it really matter to you?

Yes if it enables them to enter sex specific spaces/sports/etc, which is what the TRA movement emphatically want.

Drop that bit and no problem

The fact he has periods is a hard struggle for him

Well no shit Sherlock. Being a cisgender woman is a hard struggle. Having periods for 35 years is a hard struggle full stop. It's shit, no upside to it at all. Nothing to be proud of, not an achievement, not a thing to be aspired to, menstruation is a fundamental design flaw and not called the curse for nothing.

Nobody in their right mind enjoys menstruating so how were their precious feelings hurt, by not being allowed to be part of something that most women would love to stop doing tomorrow?

Of course it is.

Talking about people going to heaven?

Oh you mean like....singing hymns throughout school and attending services for Easter, lent, christmas.... Imagine.

If your friend thinks she’s not a woman she needs counseling, not to be pandered to.

Her being upset is her issue, it’s no different to Rachel Dolezal being told that she’s white.

How can you choose to be a different sex? You can't choose your sex, your race, your height. It is literally impossible and I think quite cruel to along with the lie.

I notice the be kind crowd never care a lot about the women that literally can not be in spaces with men. How are you being inclusive to them?

I thought I recognised you

hope you are ok 💐

Because they believe themselves to be a woman.

You can mock all you like.

A lot of women found, and still find, 'people who menstruate' to be offensive and dehumanising.

But no one seems to give a fuck about that.

Oh no JKR 'crossed a line', by calling out the offensive, dehumanising erasure of womanhood in a 'flippant' way, whatever next!

MN were fab but fuming is not the word. I didnt miss and hit the wall in the complaints department.

Her being upset is her issue, it’s no different to Rachel Dolezal being told that she’s white.

I'm not sure why this point isn't made more.