To not understand why the 'woman' question is so hard for politicians to answer?

[Themidnightpig]

Genuinely not sure if I'm missing something here.

Constantly seeing it in the news politicians being unable to answer or getting flustered over the 'do women have penises' question.

Surely the answer is as straight forward as 'No, women don't have penises but some Trans Women do and as a decent society we treat them as women in so far as possible'

Why is this so hard for everyone to grapple with?

YANBU OP, but somehow we've got ourselves in a position where people are afraid to state basic biological fact for fear of recrimination. How the fuck it's got to this I don't know.

It's rather like that grim bit of history when they realised that Gangnam Style was fashionable and they all had to take films of themselves dancing to prove they were accessible, up to date and exciting.

Is it me then, or are politicians not only cowards but also completely shit at maths? Would they not get more votes by giving 50% of the population what they want to hear rather than spouting wiffle to pacify 1% of it?

Perhaps it's just me. After all, I am just a woman so wtf would I know about logic, maths and voting systems.

Would they not get more votes by giving 50% of the population what they want to hear rather than spouting wiffle to pacify 1% of it?

It's more the backlash from the social media mob they're concerned with

I'm not Tory, never voted Tory, but I'm dismayed at some of the labour, Lib Dem and greens answer to the question. Stella Creasy's tweet from yesterday for example. I'm not anti - woke either. I just have a degree in Biology and know that anybody born male does not have a penis. It ain't hard to be both respectful to trans people and not lie through your teeth.

Shouldn't be that hard for them should it, but it seems to be.

Is that going to work though?

For people that have no idea about the trans debate online, they see politicians saying women have penises.
Do you really think that the average person on the street would agree with that?
Or maybe they see the politician blatantly lying (about something so fundamental that everyone already knows the truth about even if they won't admit it) and wonder what else they are lying about?
I'm not sure it's going to get them as many votes as they believe it will.
Elections are won and lost by the floating voters, not the ones that are entrenched on either side of the spectrum.

I'd quite like some variations on the question, though they wouldn't be as concise and focussed.

Things like, if a man loses his penis, is he still a man?
Does every penis have a man?

While this fight is about women's rights, it's the definition of man that causes me most problems. Being able to identify, classify, and plan for the existence of men is equally important. Can I have a space/event that doesn't cater to men?

Why is no one interested in how to define men?

I was with you til ‘we treat trans women as women’. I’m on board with ‘we treat trans women with respect (when they are also behaving respectfully, of course)’ but not ‘as women’. What even is that.

How do you treat someone as a woman? Or a man? Isn’t it better to treat people as individuals without making assumptions about their characters on grounds of sex?

Treating people with respect doesn't involve lying however. Which is what seems to be required.

Because someone with a vagina in a traditionally male only space poses infinitely less risk than someone with a penis in a traditionally female only space maybe? Women have good reason to fear men, to put it bluntly... partly because male on female sexual violence is much much more common than the reverse, partly because on average most men have a clear physical advantage over most women.

Personally I would have a lot more time for transwomen if they were more willing to engage with the lived experience of women-by-birth, which all too often includes traumatic experiences with male physicality.

I don't really buy that argument.

They'd get a huge positive response by making a clear statement. Why focus on what the extremists might say.

I don’t even know why the question is necessary.

I don't like that term. You could rename it "the 'penis' question."

I think they also don't want to encourage prejudice. It's not easy actually.

This poster has illustrated why they don’t answer.

Thet are cowards scared of people like this poster calling them names.

Because patriarchal brainwashing, women really must know their place and it's unladylike to shout FUCK OFF YOU PATRIARCHAL KNOBBERS repeatedly until the menstruating women-cancellers shut up long enough for us to address that question.

Transwomen are not women though

I think a lot of them (politicians) also do realise that trans people are just the newest marginalised group to have a pop at. This cycle has happened in the past with gay men, ethnic minorities and so forth and have chosen not to play ball. I mean all of them but the tories. The tories would bring back public hanging if it proved a popular policy idea with the electorate.

Because it seems like the extremists have managed to manoeuvre themselves or their allies into a lot of powerful positions. In large businesses that have a lot of influence, in most English speaking governments, in almost all social media sites, it is everywhere.
They've basically manipulated people into believing that mainly white male transitioners are literally the most vulnerable people in society.
I have to admire the way it's been done behind closed doors, but it's perplexing that so many people go along with it.
I imagine that's why schools and children have been targeted with this ideology. It's much harder to argue against it when your own child is firmly on board with it.

Nah. It's easy. We just ask the question. In fact, I'm going onto the 'Ask Boris' thread now to do just that.

What power to the Trans lobby even have?

They wouldn't be winning votes from 50% of the population (women) by saying the Bad Thing, though - women are as split on the issue, and as vociferous in their TERFhunting as any other group.