To not understand why the 'woman' question is so hard for politicians to answer?

[Themidnightpig]

Genuinely not sure if I'm missing something here.

Constantly seeing it in the news politicians being unable to answer or getting flustered over the 'do women have penises' question.

Surely the answer is as straight forward as 'No, women don't have penises but some Trans Women do and as a decent society we treat them as women in so far as possible'

Why is this so hard for everyone to grapple with?

She was being vicious.

Back to Ops question

This is why 😂

Apparently “it’s different”, but no-one seems able to explain why.

If you can't name women as an identifiable group then you can't analyse, argue for or protect women's rights, health and interests. And while that suits the misogynists leading this retrograde movement, it's depressing to see women buying into this self erasure.

Exactly!

I'm not going to engage with you any further because I think your posts are disgusting beyond measure.

No, @SlightlyGeordieJohn has it exactly right. Bottom surgery is a terrible idea. I love how you flounce because you don't have anything to say to the contrary.

I dont agree with mixed spaces, mixed sports, or mixed prisons.

Well that puts you pretty high on the transphobia scale then. Probably almost as bad as JKR in the eyes of most TRAs.

I definitely think there is a middle ground, and that it's what most transpeople want but TRAs have ruined it for them by being so militant that TWAW and TMAM.

I believe the vast majority of people are supportive of people living however they want, calling themselves what they want etc. But you cannot escape the biological reality that you cannot change sex and that women are at risk from men (and disadvantaged in sport etc). So call yourself Amy and wear a dress if you want, I'll even call you she if you really want me to, but I will not pretend that you are a woman or think that its OK for you to be in a changing room or toilet with my 10yo daughter. TRAs should be campaigning for third spaces for transpeople and not denying reality. The word women should not be stolen from women and changed to mean a man who feels like a woman (sometimes). Also women should be given the safety and dignity of same sex spaces. And lesbians should not be shamed for not wanting to have sex with men.

Vicious! 😂

A woman who makes a point about women being dehumanised and being referred to as 'people who menstruate' is 'vicious'.

But males who send abuse including 'choke on my girl dick you transphobic cunt' and hokd up banners at Pride marches which say '#killJKRowling' are the most marginalised in society and we need to be kinder to them.

Right, got it.....

I believe the vast majority of people are supportive of people living however they want, calling themselves what they want etc. But you cannot escape the biological reality that you cannot change sex and that women are at risk from men (and disadvantaged in sport etc). So call yourself Amy and wear a dress if you want, I'll even call you she if you really want me to, but I will not pretend that you are a woman or think that its OK for you to be in a changing room or toilet with my 10yo daughter. TRAs should be campaigning for third spaces for transpeople and not denying reality. The word women should not be stolen from women and changed to mean a man who feels like a woman (sometimes). Also women should be given the safety and dignity of same sex spaces. And lesbians should not be shamed for not wanting to have sex with men.

This. Every single word of it.

That is transphobic in itself.

Are you responsible for the actions of all women?

No.

So why are all trans people responsible for those actions?

I agree with it all too..

Wonders never cease.

We are all on the same side. Some people are just harsher about it than others.

I agree with it all too

And I hate to bring it up when we're making such progress, but so does Rowling.

You really should read her essay. I promise you you'll find it enlightening if you actually care about getting somewhere on this issue.

And yet...

But you don't agree with it as you go along with the pretence that your TW friends are women and your TM friend is a man?

I was making a point about the different standards people are being held to.

We see this sort of male violence coming from TRAs and we are still expected to practice 'Acceptance Without Exception' and welcome males into our spaces if that's where they 'feel most comfortable'.

Meanwhile JKR is the worst person in the history of the world ever, because she made a 'flippant' tweet about the dehumanisation of women?

If males, no matter how they identify, are included in womens space (sports, prisons, hospital wards, rape centres, support groups, etc) then there are no more womens spaces.
If males can become women, then there are no womens issues, they are peoples issues.
If males can become women then the pay gap and pension gap disappear.
Why are so many women supporting other women being screwed over? How much do you have to hate being female to decide to destroy other women?
Trans people can't change sex. Trans men need female healthcare, trans women need male healthcare, pretending otherwise is actual transphobia, saying women have our own wants and needs, isn't.

Yes, that's how I refer to them

I can still have my views on mixed spaces

I dont disagree, and neither fo the vast majority of trans

People need to actually listen to them and not nutters on Twitter.

But I would be in agreement about the tras , I'm not sure I understand your point.

Because they don't want to get fired for discrimination, get cancelled or see their political career ended by speaking about trans identity.

Duh

Fair enough. Personally I couldn't cope with the cognitive dissonance but thank you for explaining your point of view.

I fully agree with you.

My issue is that if I was to say all women, all men, all gay people, all Muslims, all black people, do a b and c I would be -phobic.

But for me, it seems perfectly acceptable to be able to put all trans in a category, start straight off with the "you cant change sex" etc etc and posts like my Geordie PP friend are allowed.

We all agree on the same issues.

It might be worth remembering that TRA's aren't doing my trans friends any favours either, they certainly don't speak for them.

They're happy to get changed in separate spaces etc. They feel they're a man or a woman (depending which friend it is) but they respect that there has to be a middle ground so that everyone is comfortable, which is more than can be said for lots of people.

If trans women are women, what are they transing for?

And since women can't be transwomen, how does that work if transwomen can be women, and they are the same thing?

If they are different how can we name the difference if there is no difference? We are certainly not allowed to explain the difference.

If there isn't a difference, why is there a fertility problem if you have a transwoman and a man? Why won't IVF work?

All this 'living like a woman' stuff strangely doesn't include menstruation or pregnancy. Why is that?

If you were a pair of trousers, does that mean you are a man? Or you self identify as a man? If you like football does this mean you are living like a man? If you pay prostitutes does this make you a man?

This is all abject nonsense.

Unless you are Stella Creasey. Who apparently thinks fair and polite criticism is 'abuse'.

Im sure we could show her what abuse is. Not by abusing her, but by showing screenshots. Not that she'd have any other attitude other than 'well you deserved it' whilst supporting the Rapist's Right to Female Prison Accommodation...