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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

635 replies

Alwaystoblame · 27/05/2022 14:10

Posting for traffic.
How do I go about finding my Dd a new school if she's been permanently excluded? How likely are good schools to take her on in year 10 with an appalling attendance and behaviour record? She's very bright and doing very well academically when are bothers to go to class and do the homework. Attendance in in the 60s for this year. Even when she dies go in she is late and/or truants classes.
I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

OP posts:
tkwal · 28/05/2022 12:00

She's the only one who can make the changes needed(assuming she has had assessments to rule out ASD etc)
I know you can't help worrying about her but you need to let her experience the consequences of what she does. For any assaults she has carried out, the police should have been involved. And she should be excluded. The school has a duty of care to those she has abused
She will learn in time, it might have to be the hard way but if she's as smart as you say she will eventually realise she's not invincible

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 28/05/2022 12:01

Alwaystoblame · 28/05/2022 10:52

I am leaving him to it but it won't stop me worrying.

Of course it won't, she's your DD who you love. Unfortunately between her and her Father you have zero chance of effecting anything until if and when DD is willing to admit her behaviours are wrong and seek help. You can't make her engage, the school can't make her engage. What you can do is let her face the consequences of her actions (as you are) and hope that as a result she will be able to acknowledge her actions were wrong and genuinely seek help and be willing to engage with that help. Then you can go all in to support her.

OrangeCinnamonCroissant · 28/05/2022 12:01

Alwaystoblame · 28/05/2022 11:22

She has previously refused mental health support. She cites her mental health (and me) as the reason for her behaviour but refuses to attend appointments to help her. Too much like hard work and she wouldn't be abnd to continue to put the onus of control on external things/people.

Her dad and I are not amicable. He's an abusive narcissist and we have very limited contact. I've had to block him this week due to abusive messages again. Email only now. They are both very entitled people who think they can do no wrong and any wrong they do is the fault of someone else. Everyone else is responsible for their feelings whether good or bad. She is his puppet. Social services aren't interested and closed our file. Camhs recently discharged her because she didn't turn up to appointments but she is back in the system and has had an appointment already with another one due next week. She's had counselling at school and had a place again but refused to go.

I know it is hard but try and extract Dd behaviour from her Dad's , they are not inextricably linked and it doesn't mean she will definitely turn out to be like him at this age we can't be sure what behaviours are part of their personality, the teenage brain is an awful thing sometimes.

I spent so many months worry about Dd and her mental health and convince myself she would turn out like xxxx in my family, it really affected how we communicated. If I could go back I would redress that as it simply wasn't helpful.

💐

itsgettingweird · 28/05/2022 12:04

Sherrystrull · 28/05/2022 11:07

@itsgettingweird

I'm afraid I don't agree. The original op didn't mention what her dd had done. That took many posts later.

You can care about the victims and also focus on your child. They aren't mutually exclusive.

The original OP clearly stated she had 2 previous posts about this and what this one was about.

If you read all of it it's very clear she's absolutely devastated in the oath her DD has taken and hers fathers complicity in this.

dottiedodah · 28/05/2022 12:07

Sometimes PRU are the answer .I would say its unlikely that another mainstream School would take her on .The classes are smaller and the Teachers are experienced with children like this. She sounds very unhappy .Hopefully this will help her

Spikeyball · 28/05/2022 12:12

The biggest issue here is her behaviour and she will be better off at a PRU or somewhere else that specialises in behavioural difficulties than in a mainstream. Exams and qualifications can come later.

Sherrystrull · 28/05/2022 12:23

@itsgettingweird

That may be true. I'm sure the op is devastated. However, I feel she is minimising the impact and potential impact on others.

NettleTea · 28/05/2022 12:40

OP, Ive only looked at this briefly and dont know if you have answered in previous posts - has your DD been assessed for ASD / PDA?
PDA specifically.

HipsterCoffeeShop · 28/05/2022 12:41

There will be an exclusions team at your LA who can advise on next steps. You should be given this information by your DDs school when she is PX.

A mainstream school will not take her. We have had a parent try to fudge it and apply as an in year application for the school I work at and not tell us their current school. But we found out where they attended and their PX for violence and they didn't get a place.

If she gets a PRU place that will be a real positive OP. I'm sure it doesn't feel like it, but it is. Lots of dedicated staff and they will work hard with her to stamp out her violent bullying behaviour. It could be the making of her if she realises it is her last chance for formal education.

Badger1970 · 28/05/2022 12:44

DD was permanently excluded due to ADHD and being bullied. We were lucky enough to have a local partnership with parents (through local Ed authority), and they were amazing. They came to the meetings with us, didn't let the old school get away with anything, and they negotiated a managed move to another school.

Unfortunately, whilst this school was initially very supportive, when DD started pushing boundaries again, there was zero tolerance and we then ended up having to home educate for nearly 2 years. Again, PWP came into its own and they found her a year 11 course that was run at a local college so she was able to get basic qualifications in maths/english. It turned out to be the making of her, she coped really well with being much more independent.

maskersanonymous · 28/05/2022 13:12

NettleTea I was wondering whether there had been a ASD, particularly PDA, assessment too.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 28/05/2022 13:21

I tried to get her assessed a few years back for adhd and ASD but she didn't get past the screening appointment. Her dad won't hear of it as according to him her behaviour is only a problem when the relationship between her and me isn't all good ie when I say no to something.

OP posts:
justasking111 · 28/05/2022 13:22

Alwaystoblame · 27/05/2022 23:56

My friend used to work in the PRU nearest to me. She says it is like a prison where the doors are kept locked and break time is spent in a yard with 8ft high spiked fencing. The gates are opened for drop off and pick up but otherwise locked as are the doors. It's a small school. It used to be a small primary school and is surrounded by fields. The other PRU is in a deprived area, again in a previous primary school, and is very urban with no green spaces nearby. She's used to looking out at green fields, ancient woodland and wildlife and having fantastic facilities . The staff where she is are excellent. They genuinely care and are so approachable and nurturing. My own experience of several high schools involved no nurturing at all. My emotions are fluctuating on this and I feel quite angry now that she has thrown away such a fantastic place for the sake of a toxic friendship. Dd is as equally to blame as the awful girl she is partner in crime with and school agree that Dd has no hope of improving if she stays in the same school as her friend. She's such a fool. She's not really talking to me at the moment but I hope she will as I'd like to know how she's feeling and to tell her face to face that I'm always there for her. 15 is still so young and she has lost her way badly.

Frankly this is all she deserves now. Bite the bullet and send her there. You've tried so hard to no avail

ohdelay · 28/05/2022 13:23

SD1978 · 28/05/2022 00:29

I'm sorry- and I know it goes against everything that you want to do- but stop. If she and him reckon that it's all going to be plain sailing getting in somewhere- leave them to it. Let her know she's always got your love and support, and be there when it all falls down. Let her and her dad sort it, since they seem to think they can

OP this feels like where you are now. Stand firm with your boundaries and stop chasing them.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 28/05/2022 13:25

She's blocked me now after telling me to stay out of her fucking life. She'll unblock me when her dad says no about something and she'll want me to fix things for her. It's exhausting the back and forth.

OP posts:
Crocsandshocks · 28/05/2022 13:26

How about home schooling? It sounds like the institution of school doesn't suit her.

Wheredoestheblackfluffcomefrom · 28/05/2022 13:28

You are massively under reacting to her horrific behaviour. Your DD shouldn’t be in main stream school. She is a violent bully.

You can try to absolve responsibility but she also your daughter. Your bar is set way too low. University?!she could end up seriously hurting someone. Work with a referral unit, show some tough love. Those poor kids in her school

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 28/05/2022 13:34

@Wheredoestheblackfluffcomefrom have you actually read my threads and posts? I am in no way minimising her behaviour. I encouraged her victim's mum to go to the police and have her arrested so that she learns she can't do these things. I've been supporting her victim as she is a friend of ours. I have worked with school and social services and camhs on her behaviour to try and stop it getting to this point. I have begged for their help and sought help anywhere I could think of. She won't engage. Her behaviour is abhorrent. There's no excuse for it and I have always said that which is why she doesn't like me because I won't excuse it like her dad does.

OP posts:
Spidey66 · 28/05/2022 13:36

My friend's son was excluded from school and ended up in a PRU. I think it was before your child ie year ?9 (sorry I'm old and don't have kids so I think of secondary schools as 1st to 4th year. Anyway the year they start GCSE courses.) Anyway, it was the making of him. He did really, really well there, the staff were fantastic and he ended up back in mainstream education (but not the school he left.) My friend was supportive of both him (while she knew he was no angel) and of the school and I think that helped....a lot of the kids there had parents that were either not bothered or downright entitled.

Spidey66 · 28/05/2022 13:37

(1st to 5th year)

Bovrilly · 28/05/2022 13:37

I'm afraid I don't agree. The original op didn't mention what her dd had done. That took many posts later.

The original OP was asking about options for DC who are excluded. Asking one question doesn't mean the OP isn't also thinking about other things. She even says:

I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

So if you can't help with the question she's asking, maybe find the other threads and offer advice / have a go at her there or scroll on by.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 28/05/2022 13:54

I'm a bit all over the place at the moment with this and needing to process things by talking through the situation. I'm my elderly mum's carer, have ASD and ADD myself along with chronic health conditions and DD2 is likely on the spectrum too. I have a lot on my plate right now and need to process this in the way I am doing. I didn't put any of this in my OP because I didn't want any derails. I'd forgotten how some aibu posters like to be horrible sometimes but on the whole I've had a lot of support here and am grateful. I now know far more about the exclusion process and am prepared for what happens next.

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 28/05/2022 13:57

Around here they get sent to a pupil referral unit (down the road), we call the "naughty school".

starlingdarling · 28/05/2022 13:57

I know it's hard but I think you need to let her ruin everything now and wait until she realises and asks for help. At least as a child she has some chance of getting her life back on track later. She can re do GCSEs later if it comes to it. Better that than find ways to bail her out so she doesn't learn and ends up knifing someone in a pub at 18.

Branleuse · 28/05/2022 13:58

OP. have you asked her what she thinks of the situation. Was she expecting to get excluded?
I would try and talk to her and get her real feelings. Dont get defensive if she insults you, maybe ask her to clarify why she thinks that, but dont argue it.
Ask if she has any thoughts about exams and college or what she wants to do when she leaves home. She seems to think education is something thats done to her against her will, rather than an opportunity, so id want to explore it