Permanent exclusion-how do I find a new school that will take an excluded child?

[Alwaystoblame]

Posting for traffic.
How do I go about finding my Dd a new school if she's been permanently excluded? How likely are good schools to take her on in year 10 with an appalling attendance and behaviour record? She's very bright and doing very well academically when are bothers to go to class and do the homework. Attendance in in the 60s for this year. Even when she dies go in she is late and/or truants classes.
I have 2 previous threads about the issues she's having but I wanted to ask specifically about new schools without getting detailed.

@Branleuse she's blocked me so I can't speak with her at all. She's told me to get out of her life. That's the last thing she said to me.

I agree with others that a PRU might give her the boundaries, support and frankly the shock she needs to get back on track. Her behaviour is not just truanting and backchatting teachers but violent and abusive to people younger than herself, which is appalling. If she continues down that road in adult life, she will be seeing the inside of far worse than a PRU.

I think you've done what you can for now OP and need to step back and avoid being played by both her and her father.

Leave the next approach to her, op. You can't influence what's going to happen next in any meaningful way, unfortunately.

Slightly left field suggestion, but if you have some money you may be able to find a local private school that's struggling with pupil numbers and isn't particularly fussy so long as you can pay.

One of the private schools local to me is decent but has really struggled with pupil numbers since a brand new very desirable state school opened up down the road.

It sounds (from what you've said about ancient woodlands etc) that she's had many opportunities and indulgences but they've done her no good whatsoever. Maybe having those luxuries stripped from her in a PRU is exactly what she needs. I have no sympathy for bullies.

To those posters suggesting she might have a neurological issue: maybe she does, or maybe she's just a nasty piece of work. Not every bad behaviour can be blamed on medical issues.

With her current behavioral issues, I very much doubt she would get a place, even if struggling for numbers.

I have not had a go at anyone.

I'm making the point that she needs to think about the impact her daughter is having on other children if she pushes for mainstream.

Excuse me for having a different opinion to you.

You're the one having a go at me.

No money for private education and I do think her behaviour would just continue. At a pru she would have better access to assessments for adhd and pda. She can behave beautifully. When it serves her purpose. But she can't maintain that façade.

Managed moves are for children that haven't been permanently excluded. It's literally a swapping of 'problem' students in the hope of giving them a fresh start and to avoid permanent exclusion.

I really don't see why a good school would want to take on an excluded child in year 10, sorry. The LA would have tried already. I don't think they can force schools to take permanently excluded kids, though.

Have you looked at a PRU, alternative provision or home schooling?

I’ve read your posts about begging others to help. I’ve not read your updates about reading HER the riot act or what consequences you have put in place. She should be in an environment for people with abhorrent behaviour.

She won't engage

I posted this on your other thread, but it’s important so I’ll post it again here. It is far more likely DD can’t engage rather than won’t, so she needs support and provision to help her get to a place where she can engage better.

Is she living with her dad at the moment

OP I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear this has happened. What did the school do to support her ?

@Wheredoestheblackfluffcomefrom she doesn't live with me and has blocked me so how do you expect me to read her the riot act? I was hoping to talk to her today as we had a day out planned but she's decided not to come and has disappointed us all, mainly her siblings as she promised them she'd come and made sure I got her a ticket. My basic house rules of respect for everyone and no vaping in the house are too much for her so she chooses her dad's place which she complains about all the time.

Where does the obnoxious behaviour and violence come in?

I know of someone who was excluded and sent to a Pupil Referral Unit. It been wonderful for him as he’s very bright and had a lot of individual support with GCSE revision. This sort of support would t have been available to him in his school.

I think you will find I didn’t comment on the reasons for behaviour, did I? I commented on the fact OP thinks it a choice her DD isn’t engaging with support.

None of us know OP’s DD well enough to comment for certain on the whys, which is why it is important OP’s DD receives to assessments and support she clearly desperately needs. But since you mention it, some of the behaviour may in part relate to potential additional needs. OP mentions her need for control and ASD assessment so PDA is a possibility which stems from anxiety. It could also relate to trauma or many other things, no one here can say.

I have not had a go at anyone.

Hmm well you've told the OP she's focusing on the wrong things (when she wanted this thread, unlike her others, to be about likely next steps school-wise), and that she's not bothered about her daughter's victims, you've criticised her for taking too long to describe the behaviour (all detailed in the other threads she directed posters to in the OP), implied she doesn't care about the victims and that she's minimising the effect on them.

Apart from that, no you haven't had a go at the OP at all.

This. Most schools won't want someone with attendance is the 60s. Couple that with a tarnished behaviour record and she is screwed.

She can behave beautifully.When it serves her purpose.

There’s a hint. She’s manipulative and plays you/her father like a fiddle.

With all respect OP. I know you love your DD but you also know her behaviour is not on. There’s nothing wrong with the ground rules you have.

Leave your DD and her father to come up with a solution because at the moment both of them are having the cake and eating it at your and your other DD expense.

It’s hard to step back but you’re not doing ANYBODY (including yourself) any favour getting involved/dropped all the time.

Hope you’re out with your other DD and enjoying the day with your phone switched off.

Always Play her at her own game and take her at her word. Get out of her life; and therefore her out of yours, and concentrate on you and your other children. Yes, she's your daughter, and you love her, but she needs now to fall flat on her face and deal with consequences before everything can start to be mended.

I know it goes against the grain as a Mum, but very tough love is sometimes necessary, as is protecting you and her siblings.

I can imagine it's heartbreaking as you remember her as your baby girl, and all the years when she was sweet and you can see all these great academic abilities in her.

The most loving thing would be to step back now and hope for a PDU to shock her into a bit into the concept that actions have consequences, and have her face reality. You have more than enough on your plate already. She's almost an adult and the world will soon treat her as one, so she needs to start taking responsibility e.g., getting an ADHD assessment and treatment for it if she has it. Having a friend who encourages this behaviour sucks but we are all ultimately responsible for our actions and being led astray is sadly not going to be a defense in the eyes of the world anymore.

The blunt reality is that she's so lucky to have had a mother advocating for her to get tested, recognising that she may have ADD/ADHD, etc. A lot of people never get that far. You've been great and the right thing IMO is to step back and just hope for a PdU. If she doesn't engage, she has to face the consequences of what no school, no quals, no respect, and no dialling back of criminal behaviour looks like.

PRU's are locked because if they're not the kids run off every five minutes and it makes it impossible to get anything done. It is also a nuisance to locals if the kids are constantly running about or smoking in the street.

In my experience, these kids are unruly, refuse to do as they're told, have no respect for others, are usually violent and like to bully others. Sound familiar?

You may think your DD doesn't belong there, but her behaviour says different. Also, if you really think your DD may suffer from eg ADHD, she's likely to get the testing she needs in a PRU or Alt-prov setting.

A child who makes it to permanent exclusion has had countless opportunities to make improvements and turn things around. I understand that your focus is on her having a place but you have to also consider the relief that the pupils, and their parents, she bullied or assaulted must be feeling.

In time she'll realise that things are serious. I really hope that's sooner rather than later, for both of your sakes BUT remember she can always go to college to retake her GCSE's and that there a lot of people who go to uni as a mature student. Hopefully, in time, she'll achieve all of those things, if she wants to.

OP, you're not going to be able to do anything for her while her dad is in her ear convincing her that it will be fine and she's amazing. It will be hard to cut her loose but you have to. Your home should have strong boundaries for the protection of your other children who she has actively harmed in the past. You have to let her fail with her dad as soon as possible. Hopefully she is young enough to come back from it and recover a career/life/future.

It's absolutely right what everyone says that to change she has to want to change.

It maybe that she cannot engage currently in camhs. But eventually she may see it's a need.

It may be that currently she thinks life will sort itself out however she behaves - but eventually she'll realise her behaviour will impact her life choices as it'll affect peoples view of her and her options.

Whatever the route cause of her behaviour she won't be able to change it until she realises it's necessary.

I really respect that you are supporting her victim and their family and acknowledging your dds behaviour and it's impact on others.

I think you've made the right but sad realisation that with regards helping your dd change it just can't be done whilst her father is heavily involved. You've tried to protect her from his influence but haven't had support.

And PRUs aren't what people think.

Most have different branches. There will be the classes/ branches for those with behavioural problems and she may end up in that. But there's also branches for pupils who are too anxious for school, cannot engage in large classes and also students with medical needs. They will assess her needs continuously and if she's out into the class for pupils with behavioural challenges but they notice the route cause is anxiety or similar they'll work with her and move her.

Forget education right now - that's a marathon not a sprint.

Her behaviour and understanding of that and it's 8yo acts on her victims and also her life chances has to be the priority right now and that's what they'll focus on within the PRU.

I think she's gone too far and has shown too much lack of engagement to believe a simple change of school will be enough to activate something internally in her to make her want to face her behaviour, the route cause and change.