To ask how we stop women ending up with bullshitter/shirker/less than mediocre men?

[BigOldBlobber]

Okay, so I'm not wanting to start a fight, or a finger pointing exercise. And I am most certainly not talking about women who find themselves in abusive or violent homes. I am well aware of the vulnerability some women have, and cycles of abuse.

But, how do we stop future women putting up with mediocrity or really, less than mediocrity from men?! Is it changing expectations of men? Culture change? Gender/sex based role shift?

I have a toddler DD and it really worries me to think that in the future she may end up trapped with a shitty partner.

(This is based off the many threads where women have had children with men, to find out that they have actually become tethered to a man-child, shirker etc)

I was raised to belive I was equal to any man to believe I was worthy, valuable and loved. I know my worth. I am an introvert but have an inner confidence that my parents instilled in me. They raised me up. They also led by example so when my dad was home, he'd be working alongside my mum doing chores. My brother wasn't let off because he was a boy and my parents raised us all to pitch in. It was very much it was everyone's home so we all had to take our share of responsibility and as for cleaning after dinner muydad would emphasise that if we all did a bit then we could all sit and relax together rather than one person being stuck in the kitchen. My parents emphasised that a big part of love is actually respect and that if you can see someone is knackered but don't do anything to lighten their load , you don't care about them very much. That lesson has stayed with me.

My dh will never add to my load, instead he always tries to lessen it or share. That means more to me than superficial stuff like, big declarations of love on social media or expensive presents. He is an equal parent and is just as capable as me. He cooks and cleans and is respectful of me. We discussed this before getting married though and if he wasn't on the same page I wouldn't have married him.

The whole 'men don't get it' is a shitty excuse for poor behaviour and I won't stand for it but many women do and I think a lot of them make a rod for their own back by getting with worthless men. I'm on a Facebook group for women who've had babies at the same time as me and many are having issues with their mh, I haven't pointed it out but they are all the women who have complained about uninterested partners, ones whose life hasn't changed since baby arrived, who sleep in different rooms because they can't possibly have disturbed sleep, who can't cook a meal as they've been at work all day and won't take care of the baby so their partner can because they need time to unwind.Many of these women describe men who were useless before they had kids (couldn't possibly do the grocery shop, meal plan or cook) so I have limited sympathy on the rants because they won't address the behaviour. It's different before you have kids, they can maybe take it on without feeling aggrieved but the resentment builds when you have a baby that isn't sleeping, is teething, has colic etc and the oh waits for his tea because he couldn't possibly cook it. One women has recently posted that she is engaged but if you go off of her posts the oh is completely uninterested in the baby, leaves all household chores to her and is one of those who doesn't get it. So many people offered her congratulations but when one sensible person said that she should think carefully before accepting the proposal she was called a Debbie downer. This group is full of many educated women so it's common in all walks of life. I don't understand why they won't raise their standards.

BeatricePortinari This actually applies to all personal choices you make for yourself: your health, your appearance, your home, your friends, your career. If a man sees that you take care of yourself in all these ways because you value yourself, he will respond to the value you place on yourself.

Unlikely. Not enough men earn enough money any more for women to base their lives and happiness around attracting a man. Its also really bad for your self confidence if you do these things for some imaginary fairytale man, rather than your own health/career/wellbeing.

What needs to be resolved is the large number of low quality men who have issues regarding control which manifest themselves in abuse, along with men who cannot form healthy relationships because they practice what basically amounts to unformalised polygyamy.

Many men just seem to have very unrealistic ideas of relationships. There was a video going around social media this morning of a young man who had put his requirements for a girlfriend in a series of demands, which included his knowing the password to her phone, dictating how she dressed and knowing her whereabouts at all times by using a tracking app on her phone.

The fact that we are getting such young men thinking this is acceptable is worrying and I think it does need some education for both girls and boys that this is not a way to form a healthy relationship.

hobosexual

Are they the ones who fancy hobbits?

It can teach responsibility.

What's wrong with average??

@User135644

It can also teach mysoginy and homophobia

No thanks

I have finally made this peace with myself lately. I was in relationships from 14-28 and now at 30 have been single for a couple of years (with some lovers as I love being single but not celibate ☺️)

I've only ever really loved two men. The first we were too young and stupid to make a proper go of it - and really he was too passive and his family were a nightmare. The second I loved a lot and did live with for a time, but be cheated on me and I was broken for a while. Lost every ounce of confidence.

Over the years nearly all the men I've dated have expected me to fit into their lifestyles or had a vision of what our lives should be like. Right now I have a great job, amazing friends, my own home...and I'm honestly very content. I'm sure I'll meet someone and do feel the pressure of marriage etc from family at times. But given I feel so content it does have me questioning why we're fed this line about how awful it is being single.

No, they are attracted to bearded men who ride the rails.

I think the other narrative that needs to change as well as when men behave badly, women are told to be dignified, stay silent say nothing, don’t give him the satisfaction. Ie let him get away with it. Don’t tell the children, the children will work it out for themselves, spoiler alert they never do ever. And end up growing up thinking abusive men have the sun shining out their arse because they take them to the cinema once a fortnight.

that drove me insane I named and shamed the floozy on Facebook that had an affair with my husband and whilst I hundred percent believe that it was entirely his fault, the pair of them bullshitted to my face and I called them out on it, naturally the person that was declared insane unstable Yardie Yardie yada with me. By other women including my own mother.

An example of a hobosexual:

I think the massive fetishisation of motherhood contributes.

You have women who feel that the only path they have in life is having children with whoever will provide the sperm.

Hobosexuals are the ones who fall in love rapidly with some woman due to some kind of "accommodation emergency". They know their number's up wherever they are - landlord wants rid of them or is selling the property; gf about to kick them out; parents got sick of them being a waste of space there - whatever the reason, they very quickly get involved with some woman who either owns or rents her own place. They fall in love super fast and make big declarations - love bombing etc. "Never felt like this before" etcetc blah blah. Then all of a sudden, a matter of weeks into the relationship the pooooor hobosexual has no where to live because big meany whoever is kicking him out; he's had a row with flatmate or his rental property failed an inspection - whatever.
Boom... there they are, unsuspecting woman offers him a place to stay until he gets sorted out. He doesn't get sorted out though, the next emergency occurs - loses job, whatever, can't afford to move back out into own rental property.
And then you've got a cocklodger on your hands.
When this woman eventually gets sick of this, the hobosexual, who is well practised in this art, very rapidly moves on to the next person (they've possibly had them on the backburner for a while)
Basically it's a particular variety of cocklodging - the hobosexual is driven by the need to always have a place to live, at a price well below the market rent and will use "love bombing" as a technique to ensure the roof over his head.

Ok, this all sounds very farcical when written like this, but there are types like that around. Unfortunately I encountered one..... he now lives with some other woman, quickly fell in love with her a matter of weeks after his parents and he started constantly rowing after he moved back in with them after cocklodging with me (if you can follow that). Classic hobosexual

@FOJN I saw all of those threads and despaired. Along with the millions of others where people berate women for questioning their partners relationships with women when they get a bad gut feeling. They're called jealous/insane/psychotic but if the roles were reversed many would say well men are a bit funny about that sort of thing and don't like other men around their wives/partners.

Well said about boundaries being ours to enforce. I think I'll keep that in mind for DD as she gets older.

It's a two way conversation.

Women need to know their value in order to be independent.

I see tons of women relying on men, and they really don't need to. But they don't see a way out. The men then take advantage.

Cinderella needs to be banned for a start off. Prince Charming does not exist.

Hobo sexual

😂😂😂

Classic

Sceptre86

^

Great post

Fancy hobos surely.

But being controlling about your partners friends isn’t great either. If it’s just a friendship and you are jealous because it’s with an opposite sex person that’s controlling and a bit weird too. People can have same sex romantic relationships and platonic opposite sex relationships you know.

Either you have a secure relationship with trust or you don’t. i have a lot of close platonic male friends and I think that’s the main reason I expect to be treated with respect in a relationship. I don’t put men on a pedestal and I don’t have weird sexist expectations. I expect a partnership.

Tbh as someone whose father had an affair and whose mother went on and on about that “whore” etc, I don’t think that’s great advice. It was horrible for me and my siblings my mothers vitriol and hate. It’s an awful thing to do to children.

When I broke up with ex I was determined to be respectful to him in front of dds and I have been.

acting like a child helps no one. Please be an adult and parent to your kids no matter how your ex behaves.

Tbh as a woman who has been the higher earner in a relationship, I think it’s true that if you are carrying the financial burden you can feel resentful and like you should be making the decisions especially about money.

however a lot of men feel the same way about women who expect to be “looked after” too. Ultimately if it’s an unequal relationship there will often be issues.

imo you need to marry or partner with someone who is broadly your equal. If you don’t, it’s human nature that you will be in the back foot.

It’s not always the case. My father cheated on my mother for many years, almost until he passed away. She was just content that he always came back and never left the family for the others.

I am the youngest of 6 sisters and I’ve heard my entire life from them that men are dumb, easy to manipulate and put on this earth to serve our needs. I know they exaggerated, but none of us take any sh*t from men. Never did, never will. Men know when their crap is not tolerated, so women need to be taught young.

Some women do want the exciting “bad boy” thing in their twenties, and then find out in their thirties that the nice, successful, caring men that they were saving for later have instead gone off with someone else.

I’ve some very close female friends from school who very happily chose to go out with terrible boys and young men, and who are now in relationships with the same terrible men and who can’t understand what went wrong.

@Sceptre86 I think they can’t raise their standards now, because they’re stuck. They prioritised having the baby over who was fathering it. All that will happen now is more babies. Am seeing it with a number of my friends (one of whom is desperately trying to produce a boy in the hope the husband will take an interest in one of their 4 children.)

It’s depressing as fuck and they regard me as an odd creature for being single (for over two decades) and childless.

Lead by example and stop putting it with it now. The line has to be drawn somewhere

I don't think women just spontaneous decide to choose awful partners who make them unhappy. But it is really common to replicate the sorts of relationships that were familiar to you in your early life.