To ask how we stop women ending up with bullshitter/shirker/less than mediocre men?

[BigOldBlobber]

Okay, so I'm not wanting to start a fight, or a finger pointing exercise. And I am most certainly not talking about women who find themselves in abusive or violent homes. I am well aware of the vulnerability some women have, and cycles of abuse.

But, how do we stop future women putting up with mediocrity or really, less than mediocrity from men?! Is it changing expectations of men? Culture change? Gender/sex based role shift?

I have a toddler DD and it really worries me to think that in the future she may end up trapped with a shitty partner.

(This is based off the many threads where women have had children with men, to find out that they have actually become tethered to a man-child, shirker etc)

I learned from hearing my father berate my mother NEVER to put up with that shit. And I don't.

One word: FEMINISM.

But in more detail:

Good father figures.

Mothers who model independent, assertive behaviour.

Mothers who model close, supportive, trusting relationships with women. Because she needs to have a support group of women who'll back her up throughout her life.

Having single, successful, confident older women in her life. My unmarried aunts (one of whom was director of a famous-name company) were an inspiration to me. They showed me I didn't need a man.

Intervening if you see your daughter being trained to be a people-pleaser.

Refusing to promote a relationship/ marriage as being the most important thing your daughter can hope to achieve.

Talking to her about 'love' for what it is. A chemical rush resulting from evolutionary biology, designed to get young healthy people having sex and bonding long enough to continuing the human race. Talk about how the intensity of feeling burns out over time leaving you, if you're lucky, bonded with a decent man and if you're unlucky, bonded with an abuser.

Teaching her, at an appropriate age, about her bodily and sexual autonomy and that it's absolutely fine to decide her own boundaries.

Introducing her to feminism, so she understands how women are held back and down and undervalued throughout society.

Ensuring that the men in the household understand all this, too.

Teaching her that her value lies in far more than her looks and that pairing with a man who only appreciates her looks is a recipe for disaster.

Speaking up in front of her when women are shown being abused, coerced and exploited in films and on TV.

Supporting her in education and to find and qualify for a career that will enable her to live independently without reliance on a man.

Teaching her the same life skills — driving, changing a bike tyre, changing a light bulb, small DIY tasks — that you would teach boys. Don't assume she'll have a man around to do that sort of thing for her.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00082zb

This programme suggests you're right. According to it, there is a group of men who simply have no reason to settle down. They can jump from one woman to another.

@Pluvia

Hear hear. Brilliant post.

Thank you. I just listened to the podcast and the last person to speak, a woman, said very clearly that people are getting fussier and that women are feeling able to set firmer boundaries around sex. I think the change is slowly happening. This gives me hope, despite all the harrowing stories I read in MN of women married to abuse and shiftless men.

It's important that boys are taught to question societal norms too. Laura Bates does excellent work in schools with both sexes challenging casual sexism.

Thank you. I just listened to the podcast and the last person to speak, a woman, said very clearly that people are getting fussier and that women are feeling able to set firmer boundaries around sex. I think the change is slowly happening. This gives me hope

i fucking hope so as I think we’ve regressed even from my dating years. I always felt able to say no, never felt like I had to jump into bed with someone on a first date, and generally I was in control.

now for young girls anal seem to be expected as a norm, they are being judged and shamed for not being completely hair free, and flirting seems to have morphed into dick pics and “send nudes”. Boys/man seem to have far more power now, instead of just being fucking appreciative of a girl and her body. If I hear one more teenage boy describing girls pubic hair as “nasty”…