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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DS21 threatened DD18

485 replies

Safarigiraffe · 25/05/2022 22:30

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

OP posts:
Moser85 · 26/05/2022 02:58

ThreeLittleDots · 26/05/2022 01:57

He is still your son so your responsibility

He literally isn't. He's a grown ass man, albeit behaving like a little bollix. It's not up to OP to fix her son. He doesn't seem to give a flying fig!

I disagree.

If he really is a little bollix and this behaviour is going to get worse or escalate then I think the mother should absolutely take some responsibility and try to fix him.

If not then other women will be likely to suffer at his hands.

But this has been one incident, and out of character for him, so she actually has a very good chance of helping to ensure he's not going to do it again.

expat101 · 26/05/2022 03:14

If DD was ready and just wanted something from the bathroom she left behind, why did she need DS to get out? Could she not have just asked him to pass the item out to her?

Seems a lot of escalation for such a small matter. Are you sure there haven't been issues before?

LaBellina · 26/05/2022 03:42

My male, older cousin behaved to my younger, female cousin in a similar matter, my uncle refused to step in and social services stepped in (alerted by younger cousin’s school) and she left the family home and was placed in another, safer home, as it was no longer deemed a safe place for her.

Your DC are a bit older but my point is that under no circumstances is this acceptable behavior, out of character or not. A grown man should not put his hands on a female no matter if she’s family and she has every right to be very upset about this. She shouldn’t have shouted at him but his response was so disproportionately agressive that I think it’s very unfair to treat them as equally at fault. I understand it’s very hard if this happens between your children but as a mother it’s your job to protect the (fysically) weaker one from the agressive behavior of the strongest one.

Yellowpens · 26/05/2022 05:34

Mother to an adult son here with a daughter who has suffered at his hands over the years.

Stop thinking of him as that little boy who was lovely. All children grow up into adults and it sounds like your son has passed that threshold now. He is confident enough to behave that way in your home knowing he can get away with it. My son was a lovely little boy but as an adult I cannot say he is lovely and I was in denial for a long time. I accept the facts as they are now and not as I want them to be.

Before long he will be fronting up to you and your husband. Are either of you prepared to protect yourselves should he rear up towards either of you? Do you have the strength between you? An angry/aggressive 21yr old male is very powerful physically and you'd be surprised how intimidating that is to manage in the moment. The shouting, banging around against walls and furniture, the panic coursing through your veins trying to protect your other children. That sounds similar to what your daughter experienced with the shouting, door-pushing, aggression, physical assault. It's a surreal, traumatising experience and alway stays with you.

I WISH I had protected my daughter from the psychological and physical violence she suffered at the hands of her older brother from the beginning, rather than several episodes later, then perhaps she wouldn't be in counselling now to help her deal with the trauma. We took exactly the same stance as you are now, often. In the end we had to make that break with him and I was forced to call the police to have him removed. My daughter took time to trust me and her father again as she didn't know if we would protect her in the way she needed us to in the future.

Violence is violence regardless of relationship and this event WILL stay with your daughter. If it becomes a regular occurrence then she may begin to lower her expectations of future partners and end up accepting similar behaviour from other males. Our daughter has sailed dangerously close to this situation and all we can do is support her financially with counselling and with regular reaffirmation of our commitment to her.

She is far from being recovered. She has achieved academically but in relationships it is a very different story and we have traced it right back to the toxic relationship with her brother but more importantly our lack of decisive action right from the beginning.

The role as a mother often means taking difficult decisions to protect all of your children. I am broken-hearted that the lovely boy I raised grew into someone I never imagined but I will forever hold myself responsible for the trauma my daughter experienced at the hands of her brother because I was the only person who could have protected her from it in the first place.

Good luck.

BadNomad · 26/05/2022 05:55

Will you be this supportive if/when he starts being this aggressive and nasty to girlfriends? It's sad that you don't think your daughter deserves better than this, that she just needs to ignore what happened to her until her aggressor moves away voluntarily. Great life lessons for them both.

Portiasparty · 26/05/2022 06:04

I'm afraid you're minimising this. Even the title of your OP is misleading. Your son assaulted your daughter, he didn't just threaten her. This is not just siblings jostling with each other. This is the stronger, male sibling physically assaulting the more physically vulnerable, female sibling.

I often wonder how men from non-violent homes become abusers and it always seems to me to be a sense of entitlement. They don't actually think they've done anything wrong. This is what you're allowing in your house. A strong word is nothing. He hasn't even accepted responsibility or apologised, and you're just allowing it to stand. I think you're being very unreasonable. Protect your daughter and make sure your son understands that actions have consequences. You can build your relationship with him once he has moved out and you have protected your daughter.

YanTanTetheraPetheraPimp · 26/05/2022 06:13

This is a normal occurrence in my house 😂 it’s just fighting siblings!
You allow physical violence and call it ‘normal’ ? 😳 I definitely wouldn’t.

So OP, your son refuses to apologise, doesn’t accept responsibility for his behaviour, considers it ‘sorted’ and that’s that? What about your DD? She sees him completely getting away with it, is in danger of it reoccurring and possibly escalating and you not dealing with it?
Poor girl.

LaLoose · 26/05/2022 06:13

When we were similar ages my brother did this to me. My mum took his side and it was all played down as sibling trouble. I was made to feel I was overreacting. I have never forgiven my brother or my parents. It was 30 years ago.

Overthewine · 26/05/2022 06:23

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Soontobe60 · 26/05/2022 06:27

Stompythedinosaur · 25/05/2022 22:51

If your dd had been assaulted by an adult man who she wasn't related to, would you consider repeatedly leaving her alone with him because he had been told by his mother not to do it again, even though he did not appear to see anything wrong with assaulting her?

I don't think you would.

Either he recognises the severity of the jncident and commits to change, or you have to safeguard her by asking him to leave.

What you have described is your dd experiencing domestic abuse.

What she has described is siblings having an argument. I really can’t believe some of the comments on here! One sibling is trying to get ready in the bathroom, the other sibling is yelling at them to hurry up, first sibling comes out of the bathroom and pushes them out of the way. Both were angry, one person started the row.

Moodycow78 · 26/05/2022 06:27

I'm afraid in my house he'd have to leave, he must know this behaviour is never acceptable and there will be severe consequences, I wouldn't risk my daughter with him after this, she has every right to feel unsafe.

ThinWomansBrain · 26/05/2022 06:28

DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking

Not excusing his behaviour, but if you weren't there, how do you know this? Someone describing the incident unlikely to say "at this point I was very visibly upset & shaking"

MrsLargeEmbodied · 26/05/2022 06:32

this is not an AIBU
ds is at uni?
so he can find a flat share presumably?
but i would not be in a hurry to show him the door
make sure he apologises and clear the air

runnerblade95 · 26/05/2022 06:32

“Don’t worry, all sorted”?? And you just accepted that answer and left him to it?

God, I must be a monster because at that age, you’re a big man, and I would therefore treat him like a big man and tell him to leave my house.

Shocking that you haven’t done this tbh.

Flossyhair · 26/05/2022 06:32

A line has been crossed - no matter what is going through his head. Had he done that to a stranger then he would be up on an assault charge.And I hope that if it should ever happen again, that she reports him because there is no excuse for violent behaviour like that - none at all.

QuebecBagnet · 26/05/2022 06:38

I’d be encouraging Dd to contact the police. She’s been assaulted.

cansu · 26/05/2022 06:45

Of course she is not going to kick him out. I think you have done all you can. I would maybe also be having a word with him about his temper and his seeming readiness to put his hands on a woman. It is a bit of a red flag for future violence in a relationship.

Bednobsbroomsticks · 26/05/2022 06:48

Contacting the police is a bit extreme. Me and my brother shared a flat around similar ages the fights we would get into were terrible. Sometimes led to pushing etc usually for the remote. Tell him off and let it go.

LetitiaLeghorn · 26/05/2022 06:59

QuebecBagnet · 26/05/2022 06:38

I’d be encouraging Dd to contact the police. She’s been assaulted.

What?!! It's her brother. You'd be getting your children to report each other to the police? 🙄 This thread has lost its collective mind.

BadNomad · 26/05/2022 07:07

LetitiaLeghorn · 26/05/2022 06:59

What?!! It's her brother. You'd be getting your children to report each other to the police? 🙄 This thread has lost its collective mind.

I don't understand your point of view. A husband is not allowed to shout, swear and shove his wife in the stomach. A parent is not allowed to shout, swear and shove their child in the stomach. But being siblings means it's ok for one adult to shout, sweat and shove another in the stomach? How does them being siblings change the severity of the behaviour? Would it have been ok if he'd punched her in the head? When does assault become assault with adult siblings?

MrsLargeEmbodied · 26/05/2022 07:09

but the dd was shouting to get into the bathroom,
she would not shout at a stranger in that way

picklemewalnuts · 26/05/2022 07:15

I think an 18 and 21 yr old are used to relating to each other as children- squabbling, pushing and shoving.

It can take time to learn to respect each other as adults.

Assuming things have settled down, I'd encourage them to work on this- mutual respect and behaving like an adult.
No one shouts, screams swears at anyone else.
No one manhandles anyone else.
Everyone is considerate and organised, so they don't need to badger each other or hog the bathroom.

If they are generally ok, I'd consider this a hangover of childhood behaviour.

maddening · 26/05/2022 07:17

It sounds like they are still squabbling like siblings do when they are kids, it will help for ds to move out and their relationship can build as adults. Ds needs to understand that he is an adult and he needs to behave like one.

It is the same with parents, takes a while for them to treat you as an adult, takes moving out and letting your relationship change ime.

LetitiaLeghorn · 26/05/2022 07:18

@BadNomad It's not illegal shout and swear. Only on MN do families never lose their temper and slamming a door is cause for divorce for domestic violence.
No one should lay their hands on anyone else. But no one on here is in anyway interested what the daughter wants, they're too busy telling the op off. Wanting a sister to have her brother arrested for a one-off incident is beyond...well, just beyond.

TibetanTerrah · 26/05/2022 07:22

My DM would have said my DBs aggressive and at times violent behaviour towards me was 'out of character'. And it was. The first time.

It continued and escalated and she just buried her head in the sand saying it's out of character. He was the same age as your DS and we'd always been really close. But once he realised he could exert his strength over me and got away with it, he continued to do it, and he was 6 years younger than me!