DS21 threatened DD18

[Safarigiraffe]

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

My husband did say to my son this is the first & last time this happens (as it’s so out of character & the first time I think to give him time to calm down & reflect on what he’s done)

What happens next time?

there’ll be a next time

How much time? You said he's refusing to apologise and he's being dismissive telling you 'it's sorted'. Have you spoken to your daughter? What does she think? Really think, not what she says to spare your feelings.

You asked for advice and I think you give him until tomorrow and then act. He needs to leave. Think about the message you are sending your daughter. She doesn't matter and her brother can treat her how he likes.

DS is refusing to apologise

This doesn't sound like he will be reflecting on anything anytime soon, does it?

He has assaulted your daughter and doesn't seem to care

Quite frankly I'd be absolutely disgusted with the pair of you as parents, if I was your daughter. Shameful. I hope she does leave.

Your son assaulted your daughter. Get him out.

I think it would be crazy to kick your son out, and if you do you can probably kiss goodbye to your relationship with him. Make it clear, as your husband has, that this is his only warning.

I would be concerned something is going on as this is so out of character, it’s sad that peoples immediate reactions are that they would give up on their child.

If they had been 2 sisters, would you kick out the older sister?

I be hoping he moves out if there’s a next time - I love both my children equally however I will not tolerate this from my DS & just cos we are not kicking him out it doesn’t make us bad parents. DD is of course a priority here for us to protect however she’s very confused as to how/why this happened as she’s said herself he’s never done something like this before even when I’ve knocked/shouted for him I need to use bathroom/get something

Definitely drugs

Yeah my parents said that too. He broke my nose, hit me and my sister on numerous occasions and was very hostile to live with. We basically walked on egg shells for years. Then once in a very heated argument between me and my mum, I pushed past her and she told me I had to move out for being violent! After allowing me to be subjected to so much for most of my child/teenhood.

But you are tolerating it
call the police and have them speak to him

”hoping he moves out if there’s a next time”
lol

If they had been 2 sisters, would you kick out the older sister

If she refused to apologise or acknowledge any wrongdoing, of course you should! This is an adult in their 20s who knows wrong from right.

Refusing to effectively deal with it as a parent puts the relationship with the victim equally in jeopardy, doesn't it?

This is no time for parents to be thinking selfishly about whether the son will still love them or not! He's the one who acted and is continuing to act unreasonably. He should be begging for forgiveness instead of gaslighting them all.

DD is of course a priority here for us to protect

What steps are you taking to do this?
^^
^^

OP- if your daughter had been assaulted and intimidated by someone other than your son what would you suggest she do? I’m reasonably sure that you wouldn’t be trying to smooth it over after a “stern chat” with her assailant. You realise she could report this as an assault to the police? I never quite understand why being intimated, assaulted/ abused by a family member is treated less seriously than the same actions perpetrated by a stranger by some.

Even if provoked- which wouldn’t excuse his actions, and it’s not clear that your DD did behave unreasonably to cause that provocation in the first place- he can’t go around physically assaulting people who make him angry or frustrated.

then consider your DD- I think it fair that she feels safe in her own home at all times (not only if her brother is out or one of her parents in the house too). If she says she is unhappy or upset or frightened of being alone in her home, then you have to take that seriously abd not try to minimise her feelings.

if, a future boyfriend, for example, behaved the same way when she tried to get him to hurry up in the bathroom as she was needing to get ready to go out, would you think “having a stern talk” or his mum giving him an ear bashing and a chat to try and “work out why”would be sufficient to rectify the situation? Or do you think you would be encouraging her to end the relationship, because if he can do it once then he can do it again? You have to treat this as you would if someone else had assaulted your DD and apply the same standards.

If your son gets away with these actions with very few (if any) consequences, it’s more likely he will do it again. Or escalate. By all means try and help him understand why this happened if it is out of character, but even if there is something going on for him which provides some mitigating circumstances, it doesn’t excuse what he did and it almost certainly doesn’t wipe the slate clean with your daughter. But he definitely can’t just say “all sorted” and expect that to be it. He needs to engage with you so you can help him fix any problems. You

If your dd had been assaulted by an adult man who she wasn't related to, would you consider repeatedly leaving her alone with him because he had been told by his mother not to do it again, even though he did not appear to see anything wrong with assaulting her?

This. Off he fucks, time for him to find his own place as this isn't working.

I've been your DD, unfortunately for many years growing up, with a sibling I was frightened of for good reason.

There's no better way to damage a girl's sense of security and worth than for her parents to protect someone victimising her and forcing her to still live under the same roof as him. Whether they're related to him or not.

@RunningFromInsanity it’s not giving up if he won’t apologize or even give a proper explanation of why he acted the way he did
hes 21 if he behaved like that in a workplace or at uni he’d be in trouble and rightly so.

@CanofCant

Sorry you've been through it too with a sibling.

It's triggering hearing this from the parents view when you've heard it all before, isn't it?

Feeling unsafe in your own home but having to keep living there is fucking miserable.

Especially once the person making you feel unsafe is bigger and stronger than you.

If a man in the street did this OP would call it an assault. Which it is. But parents never seem able to label it as such when the perpetrator is also their child. Even when he's an adult.

Has your dd spoken to the police yet?

Imo, there's one reason anyone gets that violent over being rushed in the bathroom (unless they have a medical issue) and it's usually drugs. His refusal to discuss it would support that too. He won't apologise or acknowledge anything.

He needs to go, his time searching for a property is up. Flatshare, hotel, anything. If anything, can't the uni look to find accomodation if he's suddenly homeless?

Take his key back and he's allowed back when invited or he knocks on the door to visit.

Your son assaulted your daughter and shouldn't have an opportunity for a 'next time'. You aren't taking steps to protect her in her own home which is where she should feel safe. Your relationship will never be the same if you don't take action. Your son also needs to know there's consequences for his behaviour.

I think your daughter should move out.

She shouldn't have to, but she isn't safe in your house and you don't seem inclined to take any action to keep her safe, so it's better if she can find somewhere else to live until she has finished college. Not sure if the local authority could help if she explains that she has been assaulted by her brother and can't stay at home because she isn't safe? Failing that, she might have a friend who can offer her a safe place to stay?

i think my mother has found MN. She is equally in denial. It is not normal for fighting to continue after puberty, especially with an older male on a younger female. That is particularly abhorrent and I am NC from my brother for my physical protection. He was unable to stop with the violence and threats even in his 40s.

Back to the op. I think you should come down really hard on your ds. Throwing him out for one event is quite extreme. However it sounds as though he needs to find somewhere to live now.

Your daughter has been assaulted by.your son. Your son is not taking responsibility and by not even apologising, your son is not showing any signs of being sorry or regretting what he has done.
You should be concentrating on your daughter and showing her that you are taking her safety seriously by removing the abuser from her home. Being out of character for him does not lessen the suffering he has caused your daughter. Do not let this continue for her in having to live with someone she now fears.
I hope your daughter confides in peope in college or her friends and receives good support and advise on reporting this assault to the police if that is what she wishes to do.
It is a hard situation for your family and yourself but please ask your son to leave your house.

Me and my siblings would get in to fights over the bathroom 🙈 along with disagreeing on literally everything else. We stopped trying to kill each other when we each moved out and now get on great. It sounds like you are handling it correctly. Siblings fight and if this is a one off I wouldn't be writting off your son just yet there is obviously something going on with him.

I'm glad I was never kicked out for fighting with my siblings, jesus christ dramatic much.

They didn't have a fight.

He was the sole aggressor, the only one to get physical and she was the victim.

This wasn't a fight, he assaulted her.

And he's bigger, stronger and not a teenager.

She's smaller, weaker and younger - she's still at college.