DS21 threatened DD18

[Safarigiraffe]

Today when me/husband were at work DS was in the bathroom & DD had just got ready to leave to go to college. DD knocked on bathroom door & asked my son to hurry up as she was on a tight schedule to get the bus to leave, DS said to her no you have to wait and DD became agitated and started shouting at him to hurry up.
DS then came out the bathroom shoving daughter back in the stomach hard shouting/swearing & intimidating her so DD at this point was very visibly upset & shaking as it wasn’t like my son to react on this way and went to the bathroom to which DS then pushed the door open again shouting/swearing in her face.
DD was at college crying on/off all day, now we have spoken to DD & to DD saying this must never happen again, DS is refusing to apologise & DD never wants to speak to him ever again saying she now feels uncomfortable to be in the house with him however we both work and can’t take time off. (DD is at college DS at Uni)
Can anyone advise of the best way forward here
Many thanks to everyone

Are you saying that if a woman shouts it excuses a man assaulting them? I disagree with that perspective, and it seems rather like victim blaming.

There's an awful lot of minimising on this thread. It's interesting to see how many parents are desperate to pretend that this isn't assault because they're siblings, or to suggest that it must be the dd's fault because she somehow provoked him. It's easy to see why male violence continues to be such a problem in our society.

Those who are saying that this is normal behaviour between siblings should read the very wise and honest post from @Yellowpens above.

It’s a tough one, I grew up with an aggressive older brother. Eventually he was diagnosed with bipolar but I remember feeling very unsafe growing up as I never knew when he would turn.
You say it’s out of character though so maybe he has issues going on, I wouldn’t kick him out but sit down and have a chat.

@Moser85

If he really is a little bollix and this behaviour is going to get worse or escalate then I think the mother should absolutely take some responsibility and try to fix him.

When in doubt, make it a woman's responsibility eh? God forbid the men in the situation step up. Her husband literally lives in the house too.

I don't understand your point of view. A husband is not allowed to shout, swear and shove his wife in the stomach. A parent is not allowed to shout, swear and shove their child in the stomach. But being siblings means it's ok for one adult to shout, sweat and shove another in the stomach? How does them being siblings change the severity of the behaviour? Would it have been ok if he'd punched her in the head? When does assault become assault with adult siblings?

This! If OP posted saying her husband did this to her or her husband did this to her DD, everyone would be saying he needs to leave the home. Especially if she said he is refusing to apologise and in his head it's all sorted.

Unreal people are defending assault.

This. She shouldn't have to wait until it happens again for you and your husband to act.

i agree
take 10 years off their ages and that is usual sibling behaviour
they need to learn to grow up and behave like adults

If this is all completely out of character for their relationship then there's more to it

DD is exaggerating. She's stressed at the moment. Her shouting at brother seems to be underplayed.
OR
Something is going on with DS. You need to find out what not kick him out.

If he did it to you, would you kick him out? If your husband did it to you would you kick him out? He has to leave op.

So yes you need to find out what's changed now.

Does she do this every morning? Why doesn't she take the item she needs out when she uses the bathroom so she doesn't disturb him every day?

Violence isn't ok but neither is constant verbal and emotional abuse which your dd says he's never reacted before with her yelling through the door to get stuff. Therefore admitting she does this daily.

I'd chalk this up to siblings arguing and make a plan for both of them to be better organised so it never reaches this point again.

So if something going on with DS how is kicking him out going to help?

If it's just sibling stuff. Again how is kicking him out going to help?

Criminalising him? How is that going to help?

Mum and dad talking to him. Setting boundaries and finding out if something going on maybe that will help? Honestly this place sometimes. Is everyone disposable as soon as they make a mistake? Yes he might have acted like a little shit but you don't throw your kids out over one fight it's ridiculous

I think so too.
Id be concerned and upset about the situation. I dont think the dd deserved to be manhandled at all.
That doesnt mean id go nuclear and kick my own son out either, but he would absolutely be read the riot act, and id tell my daughter to not harrass someone whos already using the loo. That she lives in a house of other people and needs to be ready before it gets to crisis point. That noone appreciates that sort of childish drama in the mornings. Not that that excuses his reaction because it doesnt.

No it isnt the same as a stranger doing it in the street.

Oh ffs protect your daughter, what you are doing is protecting him not her by doing nothing.

He leaves, end of discussion. Whether or not that’s just for a few nights or perm depends on his reaction.

DS then knows his behaviour is completely unacceptable end of story and it’s not ok to physically assault, intimidate or verbally abuse anyone.

DD feels protected and can relax in her own home.

If DS apologises profusely and actually takes some responsibility he comes back.

But serious damage has been done here and you don’t need a randomer on the internet to tell you that.

OP,

I have children that age.

This is so serious.

This is not a sibling tussle.

This is domestic violence in your home.

Your daughter has been seriously assaulted.

Your son is so dismissive and entitled, he is refusing to answer questions?

You and your husband are being incredibly passive about this.

He should have been asked to leave the house immediately so that your daughter could feel safe when she returned home.

Let him stay with a friend.
He's a big boy that feels comfortable assaulting his sister, he'll work out somewhere to stay.

Your daughter was crying all day in college and you think a firm talking to him is appropriate?

Your poor daughter.

I hope she has some friends and adults that care about her and encourage her to involve the police.

He's the makings of a thug and the fact that it is out of character is wrong, it is part of his character, you just hadn't seen it.

He assaulted her twice, once when she was outside the bathroom and then when he went back for more and wouldn't allow her to close the door.

This is so serious OP.

You have chosen him over your daughter's safety, and she will never forget this.

As she matures she will realise that her parents chose him by allowing him to stay.

The enormity of what you did will remain with her.

This is most certainly not siblings fighting in any shape or form.

This is a man assaulting a woman.

How you can put your son ahead of your daughters safety is incredibly sad.

I repeat, I hope she has people she can tell who will encourage her to go to the police and protect as you and your husband are choosing not to.

If one of my son's assaulted my daughters, I wouldn't be able to look at him with the fury I would feel.

Yours has so little respect for you he is fobbing you off and refusing to answer.

Unbelievable behaviour.
All part of the character of someone who believes they answer to no one and can do as they please.

Your poor daughter.

My brother was allowed to bully me in this way and your DS will do it again, especially as there doesn't seem to be any consequences for him. I've never quite forgiven my DM for not standing up for me and I have nothing to do with my brother as an adult, I got out of there as soon as I was able.

I would be having a really good think about the message you're sending to both your DC by under-reacting to this OP, would you be so forgiving if it was a girlfriend your DS had done this to? And what message do you think it sends to DD that he has done this with no apparent consequences? Will it make her more likely to accept abuse in her own relationships? This is about so much more than 'just a shove' OP, this is about showing DS that violence against women is never excusable and teaching your DD that she never has to put up with it.

This.

my
paremts made me put up with years of abuse from my younger brother. He got them too. Bit golden boy he excuse after excuse made for him.

im no contact now with them all

Hope you also had a word with your daughter as you state she became agitated and started shouting at him.

DD should never have shouted and became agitated. He should simply have told her to shut up and complained to you. I think both were in the wrong here but him worse.

My brother was violent to me growing up. He was violent to my mum too.
I wouldnt have expected him to be thrown out though. Its not ok to be violent or aggressive, but you dont just throw your kid out over one incident

I am surprised (not from misandrynet) that the daughters behaviour of abuse was just looked over. I saw this in my youth and it only stopped when I was big and strong enough for consequences to happen and the parents didn't stop it. If people face abuse daily in their own house they will eventually crack or sort it out for themselves if not protected by parents.

The pair of them are adults and need to get a grip, Your son needs to give his sister some leeway and your daughter needs to stop being such a drama queen...crying all day, really?

However, he does need to apologise and realise that he doesn't push and shove his sister around - or anyone else for that matter.

Threads like this make me so thankful for the fact that my dd is an only child!

So she has been verbally aggressive and he’s both verbally and physically aggressive? You all need to sit down and talk about it and if he refuses he needs to leave, immediately. No way would I stand for anyone in my home being physical to another and then just shrug it off.

I don't understand why people are victim blaming or trying to minimise this. What if this was a husband and wife? Everyone would be saying that the wife needs to phone the police or find somewhere safe to live etc

Does your DD also say it’s all been sorted out?