To be freaked out in the changing room

[Magenta82]

I take DD to a baby swim class at the local franchised out council gym, she enjoys it, the teacher is lovely and it is much cheaper than the waterbabies class we used to do.

The only snag is that the pool changing rooms are unisex, there are cubicals but there are massive gaps at the bottom. If I wanted a single sex space I would have to use the gym changing rooms then walk to and from the pool through public areas, not ideal in swimwear with a wiggly wet baby.

Today we were getting changed after the lesson when a man went into the cubical next to us, it was pretty empty so there were loads of free cubicles. I continued getting dressed but after a while I started hearing really loud grunts, groans and heavy breathing.

It freaked me out, I had a really strong, panicky, fearful visceral reaction. I finished as quickly as I could and rushed out of there shaking. I asked at reception if there were any single sex spaces and was told no, but the lady asked if I was ok and got the manager. I explained what had happened and said of course he could have just been out of breath but that it really scared me.

Some staff went to check it out and it turns out it was a really unfit older man who was struggling to get his clothes and shoes on. They saw him and didn't speak with him as it was obvious he was struggling.

I feel really stupid for overreacting, the gym staff were really kind and understanding but I still feel stupid. The worst part is it has taken hours for me to calm down and for the adrenaline to recede.

I ache all over because of the way I panicked and tensed because some poor man couldn't get dressed easily!

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I did make the point that single sex changing should always be available, and that mixed changing security could be improved. I have already stated some of my experiences of assault, and my experience that this is general to most women. Nonetheless, I feel there is some ramping up of fear that is not beneficial to women. I do take your points and even agree with you on some issues, but many young people seem frightened and disheartened enough about the world as it is. So yes, let's make them as safe as possible, but also try to find a way to build resilience and not be overwhelmed by fear.

Is this one of LOJ's friends looking for reactions to screenshot? 🤔

I think you mean some men?

Very much an overreaction on your part. Bet the man would have been mortified if he had known!

What should she have done, when she thought albeit mistakenly, that someone was having a wank right next to her and her child in a changing room cubicle? She didn’t confront him, she raised it with staff. Doesn’t seem like an overreaction to me.

Yeah, you should bee embarrassed that your mind went that way. My firstbthought was an old man or unhealthy person struggling. I'm 40 and I grunt and groan at getting dressed

She literally said "of course it's not the majority" in the last paragraph.

Yes, women are scared of men. And for good reason. The majority of the women I know have been battered or raped by men. We have a natural physically vulnerability as a sex. And some men (obviously not all, but enough to make this a real and significant problem) pray on that disadvantage and either use it to abuse us or scare us into thinking they're going to, just because they can.

What the ever-loving fuck?

It's not OP's issue. It's a broader one with far-reaching social consequences, and that's not forgetting t was men who wished this on us in the first place with their vociferous male rights activism. They were the ones who insisted that if men chose to 'identify' otherwise then women should just cede over their hard-fought-for protected spaces, budge up, sit down, and shut up. That's where this constant drive for unisex everything has come from.

Now you're suggesting that if women don't like it, or the inevitable happens and feel threatened, they are the ones who should opt out of social interactions and stop doing the leisure activities they enjoy with their children?

Are you actually for real?

All those expressing amazement at the suggestion men might film/seek to view a woman changing without her consent may wish to ask themselves why voyeurism is a crime, and why there are websites dedicated to it. "Upskirting" is. a new verb for a reason.

The naivety is astonishing, quite frankly.

Well, if so he'll have plenty of fodder for his entertainment. Including the fantastic little pearl that 'women wank in changing rooms too'.

Because that's such a fucking problem, I always find. Bloody predatory lesbians, they're lurking at every corner. A gal can't even pull on her swimming kit without some perverted women cracking one off in the adjoining cubicle or leering at me over my shoulder in the mirror.

Kin. Hell.

Even on this site, which defends men to the hilt and blasts any woman who dares to challenge them even mildly, that is a cracker.

I’m glad you were wrong OP. I would have thought exactly the same though. Anyone who thinks those family changing rooms don’t attract perverts has lived a sheltered life.

I’ve said this on here before but I remember back when I was a kid the local leisure centre had a terrible problem with pervs drilling peepholes on the cubicle walls at genital level. My parents would check around the cubicle and stuff the holes with paper before getting us changed.

And the most cursory Google search throws up reams of news articles about men convicted of committing voyeurism offences in various locations, including (drum roll) leisure centre changing rooms.

How old is your LO? I don’t think the conclusion you came to is especially out of line, but your reaction - and the fact you still feel shaky hours later - could possibly indicate post natal anxiety. Have you had any other symptoms? I’d agree with speaking to your GP.

I hope you take this is the spirit it’s intended - and hoping it’s not coming across as patronising 😊

Our local swimming baths mainly have changing villages - I think here people would struggle to look under as the gap is really small. But I’ve noticed that panels have been added on top, so can only assume that’s in reaction to something being reported. So I can totally believe people have committed criminal acts in changing rooms even if others can’t

I used to take 999 calls for a living, and having a man wank on calls was not a massive rarity so I can pretty much believe anything admittedly

I agree with you.

Our local pool has had a family/mixed changing room for about 20 years. I used it as a young adult and with children and never had a problem or felt vulnerable.

I think you should speak to your GP as this was a huge overreaction and you could do with some help I feel.

Or Op could use the single sex changing rooms, wearing a robe or whatever, but that's no ideal.

So she runs the risk of further panic attacks at perfectly innocent men changing. This man had probably never masturbated in a changing room, nor considered it, so therefore didn't see the issue as his grunting was perfectly innocent!

Men who aren't perverts, wouldn't think that way

So once again women have to go out of their way to be safe and to feel safe because public space is really men's space.

I find it really odd that Grunty Man chose a cubical right next to an occupied one. Most people tend to choose one further way and to space themselves out ) even before the pandemic).

It's not enough for men not to be perverts. They really need to know that some other men are a danger to women. Thus, don't choose a cubical next to an occupied one if a woman might be in there - choose one further away. Try not to make grunty noises (heavy breathing I can understand, maybe, but all-out grunting?). Similarly, men should realise that they should not walk quickly to catch up with women when they are behind them at night (because this can trigger us to think they have ill intent). There are other examples of behaviour that is appropriate too.

Having said all that I'm calling it. I think he was pulling himself off.

And you're assuming that he knew that the occupied cubicle was occupied by a women.

The OP has selected a unisex changing room, that's what this particular pool is offering. I'm offering her a way to stop having panic attacks, surely that's something she wants to avoid?

Unless I'm the next week she can convince the pool to change, although a lot of people prefer to have mixed sex facilities to deal with children, so she may face a challenge.

But in the mean time, her chances are stay with the unisex, use the other single sec available or go to water babies.

She has choice.

Of course you think he was pulling himself off, he is male and by definition is a deviant!

Comments like that just lose you any credence.

Of course you think he was pulling himself off, he is male and by definition is a deviant!

Comments like that just lose you any credence.

Grow up. The constant variation on the theme that any woman raising this manner of concern is a 'man hater' is tedious and childish, not least inaccurate. You're aware, presumably, of legislation against voyeurism, 'up-skirting' and other forms of unwanted, intimidating sexual behaviour. Why do you suppose that is? Who are the perpetrators? I'll help you out. Here's an overview of which sex is overwhelmingly victim to sex offences:

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/an-overview-of-sexual-offending-in-england-and-wales

The ratio of sex offenders who are male? 97%.

Here's another piece of context you seem to be missing. Since these mixed sex changing rooms became more commonplace, reports of these offences have exponentially increased. A whopping nine out of ten reports about sexual misbehaviour occur in these mixed-sex facilities. I quote the article: 'One MP said it risked becoming a "magnet" for sex offenders and increased the danger to women and girls'. Here you go.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-pests-target-women-in-mixed-changing-rooms-x3vw2lnv8

Now add to that bigger picture a pattern of behaviour wherein a man chooses a changing cubicle adjacent to one that's already occupied and promptly begins grunting - not breathlessly trying to struggle his clothes on - grunting. Of course he knew it was a woman in there. Babies emit constant noise, especially when they are being changed, and mothers do have a tendency to talk to their kids.

I suspect, given not only the bigger picture of this situation but the actual pattern of behaviour displayed by this individual, that the OP's gut was bang on the money, as is YetAnotherSpartacus's supposition of his real motivation.

Yours is the comment lacking credence.

Are you really this naive or do you think it's ok to minimise women's fear?

Yours is the comment lacking credence.

Yes, exactly.

Now add to that bigger picture a pattern of behaviour wherein a man chooses a changing cubicle adjacent to one that's already occupied and promptly begins grunting - not breathlessly trying to struggle his clothes on - grunting. Of course he knew it was a woman in there. Babies emit constant noise, especially when they are being changed, and mothers do have a tendency to talk to their kids.

Also exactly. But, even if he didn't know it was a woman in there he did know it was mixed-sex and he should have known that women were present and the proper thing to do is to give them space and privacy and not potentially induce fear.

Plus, most humans when entering similar facilities (toilets, changing rooms) visually scan the area and almost instinctively (if possible) pick a cubical away from any others.

If he was all innocent then maybe he'll be a little more aware next time but I still think he was pulling himself off.

She has options to choose, again some people prefer mixed facilities and the option of single sex is provided.

Just what is the issue?

That the single sex must be closer to the pool because that's what this particular OP wants?

They are there, it's really not that much of an inconvenience

So he didn't do it. Oh - he might have done it but it's now the OP's responsibility to adjust her behaviour to accommodate a (likely) wanker. There's a variation on this pattern, and it goes like this.