To be freaked out in the changing room

[Magenta82]

I take DD to a baby swim class at the local franchised out council gym, she enjoys it, the teacher is lovely and it is much cheaper than the waterbabies class we used to do.

The only snag is that the pool changing rooms are unisex, there are cubicals but there are massive gaps at the bottom. If I wanted a single sex space I would have to use the gym changing rooms then walk to and from the pool through public areas, not ideal in swimwear with a wiggly wet baby.

Today we were getting changed after the lesson when a man went into the cubical next to us, it was pretty empty so there were loads of free cubicles. I continued getting dressed but after a while I started hearing really loud grunts, groans and heavy breathing.

It freaked me out, I had a really strong, panicky, fearful visceral reaction. I finished as quickly as I could and rushed out of there shaking. I asked at reception if there were any single sex spaces and was told no, but the lady asked if I was ok and got the manager. I explained what had happened and said of course he could have just been out of breath but that it really scared me.

Some staff went to check it out and it turns out it was a really unfit older man who was struggling to get his clothes and shoes on. They saw him and didn't speak with him as it was obvious he was struggling.

I feel really stupid for overreacting, the gym staff were really kind and understanding but I still feel stupid. The worst part is it has taken hours for me to calm down and for the adrenaline to recede.

I ache all over because of the way I panicked and tensed because some poor man couldn't get dressed easily!

I have absolutely no objection to cubicles in mixed sex changing areas, and I was once actually wanked over, on a train, in broad daylight, by a one-legged man. I swear I have not made this up!

The wank went all over a new pair of shoes, which of course I had to throw away.

They have doors, but big gaps above and below, I had mine locked, I didn't look at his when I came out as it was further from the door but when the manager went to look he had his door open.

I agree wholeheartedly with this response.
I can see both points of view especially because I can imagine myself in your situation.
The swimming baths staff wouldn't have necessarily thought the worst and assumed the man was masturbating or assumed you thought he was.

What the hell is this?

Ask yourself would you rather assume the worst and be wrong or assume the best and be wrong? The consequences for the man if you assume the worst and are wrong are possibly acute embarrassment and annoyance at being falsely suspected, the consequences for woman assuming the best and being wrong are far worse.

We really need to stop training girls to worry about causing a scene and hurting men's feelings. If opportunistic predators were more worried about their behaviour being exposed there might be fewer of them willing to take advantage of situations where women feel vulnerable. The risk of sexual assault is far higher in mixed sex changing facilities. I can't quite believe how many posters are so naïve about the lengths predators will go to to commit their crimes, some will train for years to enter a progression which gives them access to vulnerable people to abuse so using a phone to film over or under partition walls is really no big deal to them.

I can't quite believe people are berating the OP for her response. Women are raped and sexually assaulted everyday. Nearly all sexual offences are committed by men, that is a statistical fact not a judgement on the nature of all men.

I'm glad the staff took you seriously, they seem to have handled the situation with sensitive to all parties. Do not feel guilty for feeling afraid, one day you may need to rely on that instinct to keep you safe.

Agree with the post about seeing GP about anxiety. I can't say you were wrong as it was a possibility it was dodgy but people tend to be decent. I prefer unisex changing rooms;loos;etc anyone goes in so single parents with opposing gender kids are the norm.. obviously separate cubicles / stalks but I don't see it as a safety problem.... in some ways it could be argued its safer as there are more witnesses or chances that a weirdo can get caught (assuming they don't want to be caught obvs)

You'll probs gradually get over your fear if you keep going.

I honestly expected a camera under the cubicle story.

I'm sorry you felt so panicked by the situation and I know how it is... Every cubicle but the one next to me! (Same with cinema seats in empty theatre, or car parking spaces in car park)

I hope this gives you an insight and a chuckle ...

My Asperger's has been getting worse for years. It may be the ADHD side or some sort of tourrettes, but I regularly make grunting noises, I'll be known to 'sing' in grunting noises. I speak to myself...

My DD is a teen now and would have been changing separately, but if she'd heard me she would have shouted - Mum! Enough with the grunts!

So I apologise to everyone in advance.

I hope you feel better now. It's quite hard to get your shoes n socks on in very little space sometimes.

The patronising comments telling you to deal with your "anxiety" are just fucking rude. You're not irrational or mentally unwell for being scared of something scary happening.

You did nothing wrong, OP.

I don't understand why the man had to choose the cubicle right next to yours, either. I'm not surprised that put you on edge. Then to hear what sounds like wanking... I would have assumed the same thing. Pretty sure most women would.

No, she really shouldn't. OK, on this occasion it was a mistake. But a bloke engaging in heavy breathing on the other side of a partition wall isn't always going to be doing so for entirely innocent reasons, and to pretend otherwise is simply disingenuous.

Not all men are like that, but a hell of a large number of women seem to have been victims of their sexual misconduct. So of course hearing this kind of thing will trigger a visceral gut reaction in many women, because so many have previously been subjected to it, or are all-too aware of the kind of paraphilia which drives this kind of behaviour.

This time it was a mistake, and easily explainable as a mistake. But it isn't an error ANY woman should be shamed for making and those doing so are disgraceful (although you can bet your boots they'll be unrepentant and take great joy in attacking a clearly shaken OP).

As if it isn't hard enough to stamp out unwanted sexual behaviour or receive justice for it when it happens. Men's comfort at the expense of women's safety, aye? This always seems to be the case on these threads.

I agree.

For the doubters that this happens this is from our children's swim team I let my DD 12 change alone that day after training.

But of course we are all paranoid! Except experience tells us we are not unfortunately!

I really find it unlikely that a man would lie/crouch on the floor, in a public space to catch a glimpse of a woman getting changed

Well, luckily they don't have to do that any more - you just need to put your phone over/under - perhaps 'accidentally' leave it recording whilst balanced carefully on your shoe which you 'accidentally' nudge under the divider...

Look, men have invented fake arms, shoe-cams, cameras that sit actually down the toilet or in a coat hook, or take the place of clock radios to get masterbatory material. In the old days it was all about little holes in the cubicles to peep through (do you really not remember being in places with tissue stuffed in holes to stop men looking in? - what on earth makes you think they wouldn't do this? The thrill of getting caught is part of it.

Not ideal having unisex changing rooms with big gaps below and above doors. Are there gaps between the cubicle dividing walls as well?

@SallyWD yes, woman are.

Every single woman in my life has had at least one traumatic interaction with a man.

Sadly I even know someone who was murdered by her ex.

I’ve had so many horrible experiences, I’ve been attacked, followed, verbal abused, sexually assaulted, intimidated and abused by men.

If I got anywhere alone I carry a rape alarm, I make sure I know where my escape routes are, I am absolutely terrified if I have to go near a group of men and I do everything to avoid passing too closely.

It mat sound over dramatic to you but when you’ve had more encounters than you can care to remember then it leaves a lasting imprint on you.

I don't understand why changing cubicles and loos don't have top to bottom doors and sides which would obviate some of this? is it because they're cheaper to install and easier to clean because for swimmers there will be water draining off? does there have to be such a huge gap?

This is not a new thing, though TRAs and the perception of them may be heightening anxiety. Obviously some pools don't have a way of accommodating everyone. To ensure everyone got what they wanted they would have to provide

• Family rooms


• Places for single parents taking opposite sex children over 8 (enough family rooms would help)


• Female changing rooms for women whose experience or religion does not allow men even transwomen (post op) or those identifying as women along


• Male changing rooms for men as above but with transmen - this doesn't seem to be so much of a problem but I stand to be corrected.


• Open changing rooms for those who don't care.

And this doesn't include loos or showers.

I am glad OP's elderly grunting man wasn't embarrassed by her concerns. But with an increasingly elderly population with people who love swimming or swim for their health, perhaps they should be considering higher seats for loos and benches and grab bars.

Anyone on here who works in a pool who can explain?

Apologies for the typos!

Mixed sex changing rooms are a good idea, for parents with opposite sex children, and those who really don't mind using them. Yes, pools should provide single sex areas too. The cubicles need to be secure obviously, and staff within earshot in case of problems, an alarm buzzer, or some sort of equipment for emergency help. But, as the OPs prolonged reaction to the incident shows, women are more afraid and I don't think that's good for us. The narrative that we are defenceless victims against predatory males and need protection, segregation and defending is regressive and damaging to the female psyche, I believe. We need to be loud, unapologetic and confidently taking up space in the world.

I'm not sure whether to sympathise with or envy your naivete. On the whole it's the former, because without that terrifying gut reaction that very rarely fails us, we might find ourselves at risk. That instinct is there for a very good reason.

Or perhaps experience has turned me into a hardened cynic. I'm well aware of the sexual, psychological and physical harm inflicted on women by men: I've suffered extensively on all three counts. But people don't walk about carrying pitchforks or with a 666 tattoo on their foreheads. We can't tell who are the dangerous ones, so unfortunately all male strangers are a potential threat. They're also opportunists, and open access changing rooms present opportunities that are bound to be irresistible to certain types.

The assailants, the people who inflict violent and sexual harm on women, are overwhelmingly men. All you need to do is look at the statistics.

We have unisex changing rooms at our swimming pool. I've never thought anything of it or thought about the gaps under the door. I really find it unlikely that a man would lie/crouch on the floor, in a public space to catch a glimpse of a woman getting changed.

Happened to me. I had my leg up on the bench drying it too. Same side as he was peering under from.

So while it's unlikely, I can vouch for it happening. And the fact that people don't believe men - some men - would do that, and therefore wouldn't believe me, basically because they couldn't imagine doing it themselves, is pretty hard to digest.

However, when you think what a potential sex offender would do, then unless you are one, it's probably best not to use yourself as an example. I find it's better to think "Is this an opportunity that could be exploited by a sex offender?"

And I've also had boys looking over the top of cubicles when I was younger.

Just to add, I have used changing rooms for women only that were empty in the day, and quite possible for a man to walk in and assault me. I mean there is nobody watching the door.

You should be very embarrassed for assuming the worst. You could have really caused a scene for the man. Have a word with yourself.

Bollocks you should. Many women feel vulnerable in mixed-sex changing rooms. Fair enough, the scenario was innocent this time. But the problem is not the Op, the problem is the policy that forces women to share changing spaces with males.

My local pool is like this (are you in London and is it just off the High Street perhaps?!). I'm not a fan because it means you have to find a cubicle and cart all your things from the locker etc because you can't just get changed in the open. I also don't bother showering there and wait until I get home, again because of the faff of carrying everything around, but have gotten used to it. The worst is when a lesson has just finished in the training pool and so all the cubicles are taken.

Can you try to make sure you get a cubicle next to some of the other parents in the class?

So would you choose the unisex changing rooms and use that? Or would you walk a bit further, with a wriggly baby, which apparently is not ideal and use the single sex changing rooms? These were in the same building but OP didn't want to use them as it "wasn't ideal" ?

Well she had and does have options, but doesn't want to use them.

Maybe if grunty man knows he’s going to have trouble changing he should not pick a room right next door to someone who might misinterpret his grunts - and it’s perfectly reasonable as a woman to be afraid in this situation - we need to be vigilant. Maybe he’ll think twice next time. Of course, he could have been deliberately intimidating and just made the ‘out of breath ‘ story up. All in all changing villages are a bad idea and I won’t use them.

Mixed sex changing rooms are a good idea, for parents with opposite sex children, and those who really don't mind using them. Yes, pools should provide single sex areas too. The cubicles need to be secure obviously, and staff within earshot in case of problems, an alarm buzzer, or some sort of equipment for emergency help. But, as the OPs prolonged reaction to the incident shows, women are more afraid and I don't think that's good for us. The narrative that we are defenceless victims against predatory males and need protection, segregation and defending is regressive and damaging to the female psyche, I believe. We need to be loud, unapologetic and confidently taking up space in the world.

It's quite difficult to reply to this kind of logic. It's the same kind of logic which insists if a man attacked them they'd fight back, not understanding about the fight/flight/freeze response or naively thinking it will never happen to them. It can. It does. Every. Single. Day.

Statistics show that many, many women have indeed been victims of violent men. Why else have Rape Crisis Centres been set up, single sex spaces been achieved, all at the hands of very strong, fighting, upstanding women who are hardly 'victims' but who recognise that our material biology puts us at a clear disadvantage? It's because they are very necessary. And why do you think otherwise vocal, ballsy, formidable women do humour these arseholes, or be loud and unapologetic and taking up space in the face of these ministrations? It's because if we happen to be amongst that unlucky statistic, we could end up dead in a ditch.

This is not scaremongering. It's not 'fear' talking, but a healthy recognition of the reality in which we live. If you remain to be convinced, check out #CountingDeadWomen.