To be freaked out in the changing room

[Magenta82]

I take DD to a baby swim class at the local franchised out council gym, she enjoys it, the teacher is lovely and it is much cheaper than the waterbabies class we used to do.

The only snag is that the pool changing rooms are unisex, there are cubicals but there are massive gaps at the bottom. If I wanted a single sex space I would have to use the gym changing rooms then walk to and from the pool through public areas, not ideal in swimwear with a wiggly wet baby.

Today we were getting changed after the lesson when a man went into the cubical next to us, it was pretty empty so there were loads of free cubicles. I continued getting dressed but after a while I started hearing really loud grunts, groans and heavy breathing.

It freaked me out, I had a really strong, panicky, fearful visceral reaction. I finished as quickly as I could and rushed out of there shaking. I asked at reception if there were any single sex spaces and was told no, but the lady asked if I was ok and got the manager. I explained what had happened and said of course he could have just been out of breath but that it really scared me.

Some staff went to check it out and it turns out it was a really unfit older man who was struggling to get his clothes and shoes on. They saw him and didn't speak with him as it was obvious he was struggling.

I feel really stupid for overreacting, the gym staff were really kind and understanding but I still feel stupid. The worst part is it has taken hours for me to calm down and for the adrenaline to recede.

I ache all over because of the way I panicked and tensed because some poor man couldn't get dressed easily!

Sorry you were upset.
Unisex changing rooms tends to have that effect.
You could ask if there are family changing rooms that you can pre book.
I would have shouted to the man and asked if he was ill .
As someone mentioned those with arthritis tend to swim to help yet dressing will be a painful struggle.

Well statistically I'd know it was unlikely to be a woman because males are the humans that commit over 90% of sexual and violent crime.

Did you not know that? Or are you willfully trying to obscure that fact?

However I'm safeguarding trained and know nobody is above suspicion so perhaps I'd hold it in mind as a possibility.

The key points are that

1. I wouldn't have an involuntary trauma reaction to another woman because every single rape, sexual assault, assault, grope, cat call, leer and mugging I have experienced in my life has been at the hands of a male.

And 2) in the extraordinarily extremely unlikely case of it being a sexually violent woman, she cannot rape me and if she attacks me I've a good chance at defending myself.

When I was fit and athletic I used our mixed changing rooms to change out of the pool for communal swimming and I looked up and there were 4 lads in the cubicle next to me peeking over.

They were young adults, but I was a minor if not barely just over.

Men do peek over or under. Let's not pretend that men as a group have a higher percentage of sexual crimes than women have.

Alternatively, this is why some women fight for single sex spaces. because some women have past experiences that mean they get taken back to a past trauma quite easily.

And yes, there are far too many instances, in the UK over thee last year, of men using the gaps in cubicles to grab themselves some wanking material. It isn't unusual, unfortunately.

Are these cubicles with or without doors op?

It's understandable, especially if you've had a bad experience in the past.

I agree. It's like males who take part in women's sports and obviously win the medals and prizes. Puts women off sport and discourages them from competing. Just as the risk of encountering a man in a public toilet, with no one else around, makes it more comfortable to hurry home. Just more ways of ushering women out of public life.

Merryclaire · Today 17:41

Obviously a fake post and will no doubt provoke a trans debate in a few minutes - ‘because they’re making us have unisex changing rooms’.

They’re just trying to get a bit of titillation over getting Mumsnetters all worked up. It’s the over attention to detail in the post (clearly for their own amusement) and the idea she was shaking for hours! So much she now ‘aches’. Seem to be lots of these types of posts lately.

Why do you think of trans people when the subject of women feeling unsafe and pervy men comes up? Are you a massive transphobe or something?

The way you say "getting Mumsnetters all worked up" makes it sound like you are not a mumsnetter, perhaps more a TRAMP here to stir?

Maybe I'm missing the point and you're just lacking empathy.

Are people really this terrified of men?

Some women have very good reason to be.

Some absolute tosser comments in this thread, are you all always so kind and open-minded?

This could easily happen again. With that level of anxiety, wouldn't it be better to find a place that has separate changing rooms? That would seem the simplest solution.

@GCRich perhaps if you could refer to my previous post just above yours - and you will see exactly why I brought it up

If I wanted a single sex space I would have to use the gym changing rooms then walk to and from the pool through public areas, not ideal in swimwear with a wiggly wet baby.

I don't follow this. Surely the pool itself is a public area where you are wearing swimwear and have a wriggly wet baby?

This is why changing rooms need to be single sex but it’s much cheaper to have unisex but obviously a crap inconvenience for lots of people. I think that this corner cutting will just lead to people opting out of sports which is a shame

but if you have single sex spaces then children are at risk if they have to use them alone. I really think this outweighs which I agree is an unlikely risk of attack by a man in a unisex area (which is usually busy with loads of people).

If it was our leisure centre you'd have to leave the swimming pool changing room and go to a dryside changing room eg for the gym or aerobics studio. It may be similar where the OP was.

GreenWheat · Today 17:57

This could easily happen again. With that level of anxiety, wouldn't it be better to find a place that has separate changing rooms? That would seem the simplest solution.

For all you know you are suggest OP goes to a swimming pool in the next town, 20 miles away by slow bus, because the council can't be bothered to provide single sex spaces that most people want. [As an aside what percentage of men prefer to get changed in single sex spaces, not mixed sex? I'd guess that most men have no desire to use getting changed as an opportunity to perv, and many might prefer to be in a space that makes it impossible for a woman to mistakenly accuse them of perving - ie one without women].

Like most women I have been treated to flashers, kerb crawlers and creeps since I started travelling to school at the age of 11. It's a crap feature of our world. On the other hand, I treasure the old style feminists I know who would roar like lions rather than the more modern take which seems to be fearful and in need of protection.

Just not a solution that suits a currently fashionable political agenda that's incidentally really quite staggeringly misogynist

no, it helps families. Mums want to be able to swim with sons, and Dads want to be able to swim with daughters.

Having thought about it, it is a good point that the dryside changing rooms at our local pool ARE single sex but they are closed in, and actually I would feel much safer in a cubicle in a busy unisex changing room.

Yep that’s the answer. Make women pay through the nose for safety and dignity. 🙄

You don't think that perhaps I am interested in women's rights and female only spaces because I have panic attacks?

@Magenta82
If you have panic attacks in non women only spaces, then go swimming where they have them. Leave people who are happy to get changed in unisex places and enjoy the cheaper prices, to do so in peace.

Your panic attacks are not their problem to deal with.

Op were these open cubicles or did they have doors on them?

Merryclaire · Today 17:57

@GCRich perhaps if you could refer to my previous post just above yours - and you will see exactly why I brought it up

Are you suggesting that it is too much of a coincidence that someone could support single sex spaces and be made to feel very uncomfortable in a mixed sex space only two weeks later? I don't regard that as particularly coincidental.

I also regard the truth of these posts as somewhat missing the point. It is completely irrelevant whether the story is true. Anyone with a basic understanding or men and women knows that the story could be true, and it is almost certainly the case that dozens (if not hundreds or thousands) of women have been made to feel unsafe or uncomfortable today, by men, in spaces that they would prefer to be single sex. If OP is a liar (which I have no reason to suspect) then I have absolutely no doubt that someone could hav posted something damn similar, today, and been telling the truth, so why don't we just pretend OP is honest?

The OP indicates that water babies is available (so presumably accessible), but this is cheaper, but the "snag" is unisex changing rooms.

So she either pays more (no indication she can't afford it), or deals with her anxiety and panic attacks.

The pool she is choosing, has unisex changing rooms, so that's the choice.

The ones roaring like lions are the ones suggesting myriad reasons why mixed-sex changing rooms are not a good idea. What happened in this situation was one of them. This wasn't the OP's fault any more than the gent in the next-door cubicle: it's the inevitable consequence of recent vociferous campaigns to force women to cede over their rights in the name of 'inclusion'. Inclusions excepting, apparently, if you're female.

This was an innocent fallout from that campaign. Another time it won't be. And unfortunately, those with a more longstanding knowledge of these kinds of events know fine well that there are certain paraphilias driving certain predatory men to take advantage of the proximity of women and children. These are the sort of males trying on lingerie in the M&S women's changing facility, then leaving the most disgusting reviews on their website. I'm unaware if these reviews are still visible, but I'm sure someone on FWR can point you to a screen grab if not.

And the reason I'm saying these feminists are 'roaring like lions' is because of the known consequences of daring to criticize this insidious, creeping removal of our rights. J K Rowling, Maya Forstater and Allison Bailey are evidence enough of that.

OP, you're not to blame, you did nothing wrong. Neither did he. But let's not pretend it's not men who are doing this stuff, nor why a woman's gut would scream to her in this scenario that something was very badly off.