To be freaked out in the changing room

[Magenta82]

I take DD to a baby swim class at the local franchised out council gym, she enjoys it, the teacher is lovely and it is much cheaper than the waterbabies class we used to do.

The only snag is that the pool changing rooms are unisex, there are cubicals but there are massive gaps at the bottom. If I wanted a single sex space I would have to use the gym changing rooms then walk to and from the pool through public areas, not ideal in swimwear with a wiggly wet baby.

Today we were getting changed after the lesson when a man went into the cubical next to us, it was pretty empty so there were loads of free cubicles. I continued getting dressed but after a while I started hearing really loud grunts, groans and heavy breathing.

It freaked me out, I had a really strong, panicky, fearful visceral reaction. I finished as quickly as I could and rushed out of there shaking. I asked at reception if there were any single sex spaces and was told no, but the lady asked if I was ok and got the manager. I explained what had happened and said of course he could have just been out of breath but that it really scared me.

Some staff went to check it out and it turns out it was a really unfit older man who was struggling to get his clothes and shoes on. They saw him and didn't speak with him as it was obvious he was struggling.

I feel really stupid for overreacting, the gym staff were really kind and understanding but I still feel stupid. The worst part is it has taken hours for me to calm down and for the adrenaline to recede.

I ache all over because of the way I panicked and tensed because some poor man couldn't get dressed easily!

I agree Dinoteeth.

I think both options need to be provided. Perhaps with the mixed sex section for adults with children only.

From a family swimming point changing villages are so much easier. Women and girls are at slightly more risk of being spied on but boys are much less risk

Surely there must a solution that protects boys without throwing women and girls under the bus.

I really find it unlikely that a man would lie/crouch on the floor, in a public space to catch a glimpse of a woman getting changed

Are you for real? This happens a lot. Ffs 🤦‍♀️

The set up that OP has would be fine had they done what they were supposed to do and made all walls and doors full height, floor to ceiling.

But few gyms do this as it costs more money that simply changing the signage.

With properly separated cubicles there would be far less anxiety. So, instead if spending time berating OP, pointing out that changing villages are more family friendly etc stop and really think.

What does your changing village look like? Has it been done properly? Are women and girls, and men and boys, safe from those who would abuse gaps in doors and walls etc?

If not ask them why not?

I really find it unlikely that a man would lie/crouch on the floor, in a public space to catch a glimpse of a woman getting changed.

This is worryingly naive. I hope the poster's eyes are never opened by experience.

I am the poster who's been quoted about 100 times for my remark. OK, I get it!! Lots of men have been caught spying on women in changing rooms. I had no idea!

Today we were getting changed after the lesson when a man went into the cubical next to us, it was pretty empty so there were loads of free cubicles.

Hmmn. I'm always wary of someone using a cubicle next to me in an otherwise fairly empty changing room.

I swim a lot, and from my experience, public swimming pools attract a fairly high number of what can best be described as opportunistic creeps.

My most recent incident was when a bald man (ie no hair to wash) stood under the shower opposite me staring at me intently while I was washing my hair. He was there when I got in and he was there when I left. Unfortunately by the time I got the shampoo out of my eyes, he was quite clearly adjusting himself inside his trunks. I actually confronted him (I'm not timid) and he denied it while continuing with his hand down his pants, pulling them lower to one side. He was still in the showers as I left. No-one else around. I reported it to reception, who were as helpful as they could be given I obviously didn't have any evidence, but they said he was "one of their regulars".

How many would even have reported this? This man too was an older man, seemed clear as a bell when he spoke, and he knew exactly what he was doing. I should also add that this was during lockdown when we had just been allowed back into public pools and it was made quite clear that you were to have a very quick shower and out to minimise risk of infection. Signs everywhere.

Being an older, out of breath man is no barrier to being a creep. Quite the opposite in fact - this type of man knows that people are less likely to challenge them because they seem relatively harmless and therefore innocent.

Then I'm sorry my dear, but you need to catch up with the modern world. ☹️

They don't need to lie on the floor, they just pop their phone recording under the gap.

Does the phrase "upskirting" mean anything to you?

Ah, I see your eyes have been opened, good. 😊

Whilst these changing villages can be useful for families I pools/leisure centres would provide some single sex areas too. You were not unreasonable. Those telling you that you were over-reacting would probably be the first to say you were naïve not to react earlier on hearing the noises if you later spotted the camera or mirror or whatever (they're full of 20/20 hindsight). There is no good pretending that some men don't take advantage of the increased access in these kinds of mixed facilities because they do. Your instincts could have kept you and your baby safe. Trust them.

"There were 134 reports of sexual assault in changing rooms over the two year period 2017 to 2018. Of these, 120 took place in gender-neutral changing rooms compared to just 14 in single-sex changing areas."

fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger

The above are mind boggling numbers if you think how many people don't report what has happened to them. There are probably many more assaults than those recorded.

Since all the leisure centres, gyms and pools within miles of where I live decided to have mixed sex changing rooms, the number of women attending has dramatically reduced, it's awful. Unless I go on Saturday morning when there are families there, I'm the only woman and I get stared at like I'm a alien. Not the point of this thread, but it's fucking annoying.

Sorry if this has already been asked (I haven’t RTFT) but how does a changing village work with regard to showers? If everything is cubicles, how are the showers separated?

Men are noisier than women. I notice it in our yoga class. They huff and puff without a thought. My son was giggling when he came out of the men's loos the other day. An old bloke has gone in the cubicle next to him, then there was all this crazy grunting and then an avalanche into the toilet and disgusting smell.

The showers are communal - see my post above.

In practice, most people don't shower next to someone else when there are other empty showers available.

Communal changing facilities save a huge amount of resources because sports facilities were previously built with larger numbers of men's changing and toilets compared to women, based on the idea that women were less likely to do sport. Now more women exercise but that would mean building more women's changing and toilets, so a cheap and easy solution is to install communal changing. Which many of us don't find that great.

Surprised that the people who feel so sorry for 'that poor man' who has absolutely no idea what OP thought so is presumably perfectly fine, cannot muster up any empathy for a woman who was frightened. OK, needlessly as it turns out, but given that men absolutely do do this sort of thing (A man once stared at me under the cubicle door in a ladies public toilet. I was 12.) and he chose a cubicle right next to hers, not unreasonably.

@ChristinaXYZ those figures are hardly surprising considering the vast majority of council facilities are probably gender neutral changing villages.
Many near me had additional panels added which go to the floor, and rails across the top to stop Creeps standing on the bench and looking over.

The places with male / female changing tend to be private gyms and hotels. Creeps are less likely to pay the premium to use a private facility. And creepy behaviour would probably get them barred out.

Strangely enough, when my husband was on jury service, the case he heard concerned a man wanking while watching young girls under the pool side shower. He was found guilty.

This stuff goes on quite often. Those who are naive about it are in one sense fortunate they have not yet encountered it, but correspondingly vulnerable. It's depressing. ☹️

Thank you for saying that @FOJN and @HopeIsNotAStrategy - I read what @Mally100 wrote and thought the world's gone mad. Holding vigils one minute for changing VAWG and encouraging people to disregard their natural instinct for reading threats the next.

And this is exactly why we need womens spaces.
In that moment you didnt know if he was a perv or not. Inbthis instance he wadnt.
But like all women you continually have to make that judgement.
You shouldnt have to do it when you are stripped and vulnerable.

In that moment you didnt know if he was a perv or not. In this instance he wasn't.

And this nails the reality for females: it is in the gift of the male in the moment as to whether or not they decide to intimidate, harass or harm you. In their gift. For females, all you can do is hope that this one, in this moment, chooses to be nice.

This is why females need female only spaces. Females who want to can go use mixed spaces with my blessing, but they are consenting to take that risk and have that hope that the males involved choose to be nice today. There needs to be a space that is not reliant on hope and risk.

Absolutely this.

I am sick of women always being expected to back down and smile sweetly whenever their basic rights and dignity are threatened.