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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher ripped pages out of dd’s book and then was overheard talking about her

155 replies

StripytopandJordans · 23/05/2022 20:15

Dd (10) has been in tears since she came home today. They were doing a written piece of work and the teacher was wound up by a misbehaving child. Dd had crossed out a couple of words in her writing (neatly, using a ruler she said) but the teacher was angry that there was a crossing out in her work and ripped the page out in front of the whole class, threw it away and told her to do it again.

Shortly after dd had to get changed for PE and from the changing room overheard the teacher saying to the TA that dd had come up with ‘rubbish ideas’ in her work. Dd was crushed!

Im thinking of emailing the head to complain.

OP posts:
Ohwowhoho · 24/05/2022 00:29

A teacher once ripped my work out of my book in front of the whole class when I was in year four because of my messy handwriting. It still traumatises me to this day and I’m in my mid twenties now. I wish I told my Mum about it.

I later found out I have dyspraxia and EDS so I can’t even hold a pen properly and that’s why my writing is shit.

Ohwowhoho · 24/05/2022 00:35

I forgot to add when she ripped my page out she made a big song and dance about holding it up in front of the entire class saying this isn’t what she expects handwriting to look like in year four (hence I remember the exact year I was in), and that is how babies writing would look.

Maybe she should have spent more time looking into why my writing was terrible instead of being a bully.

ThinWomansBrain · 24/05/2022 00:52

will teach child not to eavesdrop

Seriously, highly unkilely tacher actally said "StripyTopandJordansJunior..." - more probablt "she..." in which case not necessarily your daughter

caringcarer · 24/05/2022 00:53

I would go in to see teacher and ask what happened. Then ask to see child's book. Count pages compared to a new book.

Booklover3 · 24/05/2022 01:04

Christ some of these replies 🙄

Whoever said about toughening her up… you take the biscuit. This is a child you are talking about.

I believe your daughter OP. Ask the teacher what happened. If you aren’t happy with the reply then escalate it.

DrippyLongstocking · 24/05/2022 01:20

ThinWomansBrain · 24/05/2022 00:52

will teach child not to eavesdrop

Seriously, highly unkilely tacher actally said "StripyTopandJordansJunior..." - more probablt "she..." in which case not necessarily your daughter

Why are you making things up? Very odd.

LateAF · 24/05/2022 01:22

This happened to me and other ethnic minority children going up- I once had an exam paper ripped up and thrown in the bin for an equally insubstantial reason. I also once had a teacher who targeted boys in this way and worse, and also hated us ethnic minority kids (the horrible ones also like to throw racist tendencies in the mix)- she was eventually suspended after she targeted the wrong boy whose mum took matters to the local authority. Those denying that it happens live in a bubble where all teachers treat their child kindly and fairly- must be nice. However lots of children don’t have the same experience.

I’m sure I wouldn’t be believed if I set out my own experiences- I’m only early 30s so not that long ago. Luckily my children haven’t yet had similar experiences but I know I’d be prepared if they did.

Speak to the class teacher- at the very least she should be made to apologise to your daughter in front of the class. Take it further if not dealt with appropriately. My mum loved this tactic for us and it almost always prevented incidents from occurring twice. No child should be humiliated in a place of learning.

WhatDoIDoNow3 · 24/05/2022 02:10

I would make a complaint or even just query the behaviours your daughter has told you about with senior members of school staff. There will most definitely be other witnesses to the teacher ripping pages out and quite frankly the teachers actions regardless of the gossiping afterwards were demoralising and appalling for any children that might be SEN. The school needs to be made aware so monitoring and improvements can be made.

jammyrose · 24/05/2022 02:23

Arrange a meeting to discuss with the teacher. Pick up her notes, rip them up, say ‘rubbish ideas’ disdainfully and walk out.

HeadacheCentral3 · 24/05/2022 02:59

I don't know why I'm surprised with the amount of comments on here suggesting your child is a liar (because I've read so many comments this week that makes me wonder what the heck MN is about anymore..!)

But I do think this needs to be taken seriously.
I had this experience happen to me as a child, along with the teacher making hurtful and inappropriate comments. It was utterly mortifying.
She was a nasty teacher and did often do awful things to the kids which we all witnessed.

But I think your child has told you this because she trusts you to be there for her. Can you imagine just assuming she's making it all up like some of the posters have suggested?! She'd never trust to tell you anything again.

Rellz · 24/05/2022 04:27

OP please warn your daughter about nasty teachers because it’s never right! And whilst you’re at it please warn her about other nasty humans like some of those in this chat… awful to say ‘toughen her up’ and those are the same people that will claim to be advocates for MH… awful!

I would never be that parent that dismisses what my child says for an east life, pick sense from nonsense yes! But she wants you to complain and she doesn’t have form so highly unlikely that it’s made up

blubberball · 24/05/2022 04:47

I had a teacher rip up my work in front of the class in year 6. She was terrifying in general, and like something out of a Roald Dahl book. It definitely happens.

Clarinet1 · 24/05/2022 05:29

I remember when I was 10 I had a week of the deputy head filling in for my class teacher. At one
point we were doing some of those handwriting exercises where you had to draw wavy lines and loops with your pen (a fountain pen). I was a very verbal child with a reading age well above my chronological age and quite capable of writing legibly (not a stealth boast, just for context) but I did not find this exercise easy because my Visio-spatial skills were not great. I was also not a child to play up or misbehave in school and took learning seriously. When this teacher saw my work she slapped me round the face!
I told my DM as soon as she got home from work that evening and she immediately rang the school to complain, thank heavens. She spoke to another teacher who took her seriously. I don’t remember what happened to the deputy head (although she certainly didn’t leave the school) but I remember the incident as it were yesterday although it’s now nearly 50 years ago.
OP, please get a complete picture of what happened and an appropriate resolution for your child’s sake.

Clarinet1 · 24/05/2022 05:36

Also, it’s all in the way this was done. There’s a difference between tearing out the page, ripping it to shreds and saying “That’s atrocious - look everybody, X can’t present a decent piece of writing hahaha!” and just saying “ Oh dear, X, you’ve made some crossings out - don’t worry, we’ll tear that page out of your book and I’m sure you can do it beautifully if you have another go”.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 24/05/2022 07:07

amoobaa · 23/05/2022 22:56

Reading all the experiences of pages being ripped out makes me sad.

What’s the point?

It’s outrageous that teachers are under so much pressure to show that all their students have ‘perfect’ books… to the point that they have to physically remove any trace of the learning process. Erasing reality.

It’s like a fucking filter on Instagram. What does this teach children?

Mistakes are proof you are trying.

And if the mistakes are genuinely unacceptable or deemed worthy of such drama then bloody well correct it and own the corrections… the corrections are meant to remain in the book to help the child with their progress- to refer back to and to document their development.

Who are these books for? Does the child have no ownership?

Or are they just for Ofsted?

What message is being given to children? That a mistake is so awful you need to physically remove it from ‘the perfect book’. That you can ‘magic away an error’. If it’s not there it didn’t happen? That’s not teaching accountability.

I found a load of my old school books in my mum’s loft the other day and I was amazed at the progression they documented and the mistakes, comments, re-written work etc. I’d be bloody pissed off if that had all been replaced by some perfect book, with no ‘working out’, no documentation of reality or the journey I went on.

Now I work in the NHS… where there are real issues with blame culture- people too afraid to get in trouble, too scared to speak up when mistakes are made because instead of being supported to learn from mistakes they fear the weight of an anxious institution crashing down on them.

And all the posters saying this couldn’t possibly have happened… what planet are you residing?

At school I saw:

a dinner lady lock a disabled child in an empty class room and scream at him because he was crying (he was distressed about not having his usual wheelchair- as it was being repaired). I saw two other adults watch in horror and do absolutely nothing.

my best friend forced to stand in front of the entire class and read the definition of ‘arrogant’ from the dictionary, then the teacher said, “that’s what you are”- my friend needed counselling not an arsehole for a teacher.

a year 5 teacher demand his students hug him.

a teacher shout at a 5 year old with undiagnosed absence seizures, saying “now the whole class will have to sit and wait because x has decided she is so much more important than everyone else that she has decided not to listen and is daydreaming again”… then a teacher shouted at the same 5 year old for vomiting on the ‘brand new carpet’ after having a seizure because they didn’t tell anyone they felt sick (they did but were told to go back to their table and carry on with their work).

teachers ignoring racism.

a teacher erasing a recording (for French oral gcse) because the student got the answer wrong and so they stopped the recording, told them the correct answer and rerecorded it.

a religious studies teacher have a breakdown whilst teaching a year 10 class and started screaming and handing out detentions because they were unable to take their chairs off their tables and place them on the floor COMPLETELY silently.

a physics teacher who sat at the front of the class and dictated out of a text book for an entire lesson, with the class writing down everything she read… and occasionally she paused to say “everyone hates me”.

a cover teacher who came into the classroom, he was meant to be teaching Latin… but, and I kid you not… proceeded to switch the lights off and tell the class to be quiet so he could sleep. Which he then did, in almost pitch black.

teachers making homophobic comments during a duke of Edinburgh expedition.

a teacher shouting at a 4 year old who was crying after the death of their three month old sibling.

a teacher in a primary school bullying a child with autism and physically dragging him out from under a table where he was hiding.

as an aside, I was waiting in line at an airport once and a man struck up conversation, half way through he said he used to be a school teacher… then informed me that people with Tourette’s ‘just need a good slap’… and that he wouldn’t have put up with any swearing or spitting in his classroom.

a teacher who scratched big red crosses all over a 5 year old’s maths and threw the book back on the table because they decided they got the answers wrong deliberately. The same child with the absence seizures… who was missing half the lessons whilst in epilepsy land.

an by au pair who pulled down a 7 year olds pants and smacked them so hard ‘for not staying in bed’ that they child lost control of their bowels.

adults who think they can behave any way they like because they’re bigger and stronger and more believable.

Obviously I’ve met outstanding teachers, teachers who deserve giant medals made out of chocolate and wine. Teachers who change lives and inspire young people to excel.

But that doesn’t mean bad stuff doesn’t happen.

So we shouldn’t be so bloody quick to assume either way. Listen to children… for better or worse, these formative years shape the adults they become.

All this and more...
I've worked in schools and had some appalling and brilliant teachers. I was suicidal at 7 because of a vile teachers consistent bullying of me... Having been a happy thriving child.
According to the head teacher when my parents complained was 'Miss K really doesn't like girls, especially clever ones' . 😡

Some teaching staff are utterly appalling and should not be let anywhere near children.

Other staff are amazing... The vast majority are in the middle.

Just decent professionals who are human, trying to do a decent job.

Many children are telling the truth, some are embellishing... Some don't have the language to express distress so just become withdrawn or distressed.

There are many shades of grey... But we live in a world where we are often forced to see things in black and white!

Iwonder08 · 24/05/2022 07:41

No wonder so many adults struggle with the relationship with their parents. After so many people on this thread suggest not to believe the child without even thinking of checking the facts, suggest she should tough up, ignore what happened etc.. OP, I would talk about the ripped pages with the teacher directly. Unless she provides full and sincere apology to your daughter go to the headteacher

amoobaa · 24/05/2022 08:12

ThinWomansBrain · 24/05/2022 00:52

will teach child not to eavesdrop

Seriously, highly unkilely tacher actally said "StripyTopandJordansJunior..." - more probablt "she..." in which case not necessarily your daughter

I’m afraid I’m going to have to destroy your post @ThinWomansBrain because there are at least 7 mistakes.

rips mistakes up in front of whole of mumsnet

That’ll learn you.

thecatsthecats · 24/05/2022 08:51

PollyEsther · 23/05/2022 21:31

OP please listen to your daughter. Certainly speak to the teacher before the head to clarify, but we really need to lose this rhetoric that teachers never, ever get things wrong. They do. Some of them are bitter, twisted old cunts staying just for a pension, who hate their job, hate their colleagues and hate the children.

Perhaps this teacher isn't one of them and your DD is incorrect, but MN are too quick to rubbish what children say about teachers.

I work in education, before anybody jumps on me for 'bashing.' Some of the things I have seen/heard have been outrageous.

Quite. At the end of the day, a teacher is a human being and a child is another.

There's bound to be instances of bullying and of personality clashes. My Y6 teacher hated me, a fact that was transparent to my friends, who hated her in return. A teacher should absolutely rise above their dislike, but not all of them do.

I also worked in education at one time, and my sister as an NQT told me that OF COURSE this sort of thing didn't happen. Then she moved schools a few times and admitted that I was right.

RogueBorg · 24/05/2022 08:56

@IamtheDevilsAvocado but the shades of grey applies both ways! I don’t understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.

Just reading another thread where a parent is being told her DD is lying about not being a bully. Everyone telling her chances are her daughter is the liar. Yet when it comes to teachers according to the wisdom of MN kids never lie! It’s such patent fucking nonsense. I’m not saying in this case the girl is lying but Jesus Christ some perspective is called far. Some of the suggestions for what should happen to this teacher are insane.

The children never lie brigade are partially to blame for the recruitment crisis in schools - who would be a teacher when kids can make any old shit up about them and be believed?

I have 3 kids of my own and one of them was constantly making shit up about stuff teachers had said to him. I have also been on the receiving end of this as a teacher.

Just go and talk to the teacher! 🙄

Spiderysummer · 24/05/2022 09:08

I would definitely speak to the teacher first. I sometimes rip a page out of a book if it's really spoiled but I do ask a child first if they mind me doing it as the headteacher wants all the books to look their best. I pose at a chance to have another go and improve.

There is pressure from management that the books are pristine which buts undue pressure on children. I don't do it in anger. I don't do it to children whose work is routinely full of crossings out and has messy handwriting.

However 30 years ago I would have ripped a page out without asking. Not in the case you describe because it's good for children to correct mistakes and some children can be really messy, but if a child had basically produced work that was nowhere near their normal level. This was rare but effective. Wouldn't dare do it now as I think things have changed too much but I am talking about children who have taken the piss with their work or have drawn doodles all over their page .

The most important thing is to establish what happened and I would be concerned about the fact that your daughter heard what the teacher said about her. That could be devastating for her and the teacher needs to know this and support your child's self esteem.

MindPalace · 24/05/2022 09:17

Why are people so quick to assume the child is wrong? I find this a really worrying issue on Mumsnet. By all means don’t go in all guns blazing, and give the teacher a chance to put their side forward, but don’t disbelieve her automatically.

This is not an extreme story, so I do believe her.

Please do contact the teacher and then potentially someone more senior. Your poor DD. X

StripytopandJordans · 24/05/2022 09:49

I emailed the school office last night and the head teacher replied to me first thing this morning saying she is dealing with it as a matter of urgency and will be checking in with how dd is today. She was still upset this morning.

OP posts:
shas19 · 24/05/2022 09:52

RogueBorg · 23/05/2022 22:49

@shas19 but get the other side of the story too. There’s always another side.

Sorry but an adult in charge of care for 30 children under NO circumstances should be throwing scissors. Because if that was my child's class there would be absolute uproar.

Thedogshouses · 24/05/2022 09:57

Wow some real charmers here today. I roll my eyes at 99 per cent of mumming (or stealth Internet lying mumming) but I would go fucking mental about this. Of course you need to find out what really happened, that's why they have leadership. Let the headteacher investigate the matter. I doubt its all lies and those things are remembered for life. And nice troll hunting by the usual suspects.

BertieQueen · 24/05/2022 10:09

Hope your daughter is ok @StripytopandJordans

Honestly can not believe how many people would believe a teacher over a child without trying to find out the full story first from both sides.

I have a complaint going through with my sons school at the moment after a teacher said something to my child that should not have been said to him. I spoke to another teacher in the department who agreed that the comment should not have been made and they would be taking it further - it was obvious from how the teacher reacted when I spoke to them that this was not the first complaint about this particular teacher.

We have had another incident not too long ago and when we got to the bottom of it the teacher admitted they was in the wrong and it had backfired on them. We got an apology.

Just because they are a teacher doesn’t mean they don’t get things wrong.