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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher ripped pages out of dd’s book and then was overheard talking about her

155 replies

StripytopandJordans · 23/05/2022 20:15

Dd (10) has been in tears since she came home today. They were doing a written piece of work and the teacher was wound up by a misbehaving child. Dd had crossed out a couple of words in her writing (neatly, using a ruler she said) but the teacher was angry that there was a crossing out in her work and ripped the page out in front of the whole class, threw it away and told her to do it again.

Shortly after dd had to get changed for PE and from the changing room overheard the teacher saying to the TA that dd had come up with ‘rubbish ideas’ in her work. Dd was crushed!

Im thinking of emailing the head to complain.

OP posts:
RogueBorg · 23/05/2022 22:44

@Kidsaregrim your username is ironic. Kids make stuff up all the fucking time. They also exaggerate, embellish, misunderstand and just plain lie.

And other times they’re telling the truth.

But unless a parent speaks to the teacher first how will they ever know.

As has been said many times before, if you believe everything your kid tells you about school we promise to believe everything they tell us about home 🙄.

shas19 · 23/05/2022 22:45

We had a teacher throw a box of scissors across the room once. Listen to your child

RogueBorg · 23/05/2022 22:49

@shas19 but get the other side of the story too. There’s always another side.

saraclara · 23/05/2022 22:51

Childbeinganiggtmare · 23/05/2022 20:57

I used to work with a teacher that did this, I’m only talking 5 years ago. He would rip out pages he wasn’t happy with and would only give the cover (whoever it was) sheets of paper. Abhorrent.

Me too.

It doesn't help for teachers here to deny that teacher unprofessionalism and cruelty can't possibly happen, and accuse other posters of lying.

I'd love to believe that my fellow teachers are all pleasant and empathetic people, but I know that a very few are not. There are rotten apples in every barrel, and we need to recognise that, and not get parents' backs up by protesting that it's just not possible, and implying that they're lying.

saraclara · 23/05/2022 22:52

cherrybonbons · 23/05/2022 22:41

Kids don't change for PE in schools anymore. They arrive in their PE kit 🤷‍♀️

In every school? No they don't.

BlossomWood · 23/05/2022 22:52

Please have a chat to the head teacher and nip this in the bud.
A similar thing happened to me at that age and I still think about the teachers power trip now. There was just a piece of work I didn't understand, I'd been off poorly and wasn't given any info on what I had missed but tried my best. The teacher ripped the pages out of my book and told me to do it properly or else she will be ripping more pages out, but didn't explain how to do it properly. Following weeks I was singled out, made an example of and split up from my friends. It was a very miserable few months for me until my mum called a meeting and she claimed she had no idea she had made my life hell. Still don't forgive her now!

RogueBorg · 23/05/2022 22:53

@ChocolatemilkBertie totally relate to the nativity story. I once worked in a school where all the children had to fill out a slip with their performance preferences on (singing solo, speaking part etc) so we could protect ourselves from the verbal assaults we’d be subjected to when their darlings didn’t get cast as the star despite them stating categorically they didn’t want to be on stage!

Kidsaregrim · 23/05/2022 22:53

@RogueBorg you are 100% right, irony at its best..

yes kids do make stuff up but it’s the parents job to listen first and determine based on their child, whether to escalate to a teacher for further explanation.

what is not acceptable is people to say without being there themselves that a child is lying, there is so much historical abuse covered up from children not being heard over adults. Some sexual, some not. What sort of world do we live in where children are immediately disbelieved?

I thought times were changing and we were starting to treat children better - obviously not!

amoobaa · 23/05/2022 22:56

Reading all the experiences of pages being ripped out makes me sad.

What’s the point?

It’s outrageous that teachers are under so much pressure to show that all their students have ‘perfect’ books… to the point that they have to physically remove any trace of the learning process. Erasing reality.

It’s like a fucking filter on Instagram. What does this teach children?

Mistakes are proof you are trying.

And if the mistakes are genuinely unacceptable or deemed worthy of such drama then bloody well correct it and own the corrections… the corrections are meant to remain in the book to help the child with their progress- to refer back to and to document their development.

Who are these books for? Does the child have no ownership?

Or are they just for Ofsted?

What message is being given to children? That a mistake is so awful you need to physically remove it from ‘the perfect book’. That you can ‘magic away an error’. If it’s not there it didn’t happen? That’s not teaching accountability.

I found a load of my old school books in my mum’s loft the other day and I was amazed at the progression they documented and the mistakes, comments, re-written work etc. I’d be bloody pissed off if that had all been replaced by some perfect book, with no ‘working out’, no documentation of reality or the journey I went on.

Now I work in the NHS… where there are real issues with blame culture- people too afraid to get in trouble, too scared to speak up when mistakes are made because instead of being supported to learn from mistakes they fear the weight of an anxious institution crashing down on them.

And all the posters saying this couldn’t possibly have happened… what planet are you residing?

At school I saw:

a dinner lady lock a disabled child in an empty class room and scream at him because he was crying (he was distressed about not having his usual wheelchair- as it was being repaired). I saw two other adults watch in horror and do absolutely nothing.

my best friend forced to stand in front of the entire class and read the definition of ‘arrogant’ from the dictionary, then the teacher said, “that’s what you are”- my friend needed counselling not an arsehole for a teacher.

a year 5 teacher demand his students hug him.

a teacher shout at a 5 year old with undiagnosed absence seizures, saying “now the whole class will have to sit and wait because x has decided she is so much more important than everyone else that she has decided not to listen and is daydreaming again”… then a teacher shouted at the same 5 year old for vomiting on the ‘brand new carpet’ after having a seizure because they didn’t tell anyone they felt sick (they did but were told to go back to their table and carry on with their work).

teachers ignoring racism.

a teacher erasing a recording (for French oral gcse) because the student got the answer wrong and so they stopped the recording, told them the correct answer and rerecorded it.

a religious studies teacher have a breakdown whilst teaching a year 10 class and started screaming and handing out detentions because they were unable to take their chairs off their tables and place them on the floor COMPLETELY silently.

a physics teacher who sat at the front of the class and dictated out of a text book for an entire lesson, with the class writing down everything she read… and occasionally she paused to say “everyone hates me”.

a cover teacher who came into the classroom, he was meant to be teaching Latin… but, and I kid you not… proceeded to switch the lights off and tell the class to be quiet so he could sleep. Which he then did, in almost pitch black.

teachers making homophobic comments during a duke of Edinburgh expedition.

a teacher shouting at a 4 year old who was crying after the death of their three month old sibling.

a teacher in a primary school bullying a child with autism and physically dragging him out from under a table where he was hiding.

as an aside, I was waiting in line at an airport once and a man struck up conversation, half way through he said he used to be a school teacher… then informed me that people with Tourette’s ‘just need a good slap’… and that he wouldn’t have put up with any swearing or spitting in his classroom.

a teacher who scratched big red crosses all over a 5 year old’s maths and threw the book back on the table because they decided they got the answers wrong deliberately. The same child with the absence seizures… who was missing half the lessons whilst in epilepsy land.

an by au pair who pulled down a 7 year olds pants and smacked them so hard ‘for not staying in bed’ that they child lost control of their bowels.

adults who think they can behave any way they like because they’re bigger and stronger and more believable.

Obviously I’ve met outstanding teachers, teachers who deserve giant medals made out of chocolate and wine. Teachers who change lives and inspire young people to excel.

But that doesn’t mean bad stuff doesn’t happen.

So we shouldn’t be so bloody quick to assume either way. Listen to children… for better or worse, these formative years shape the adults they become.

RogueBorg · 23/05/2022 22:58

@saraclara but your argument cuts both ways. I absolutely agree there are some awful teachers, but equally all parents claiming their kids would never lie/embellish/exaggerate etc is total and utter nonsense.

It’s so important to get the teacher’s side first - I’ve lost count of the number of parents who’ve made utter tits of themselves screaming at me about something that simply didn’t happen and could have been sorted calmly and amicably.

I’m now wondering how many of them posted on here and were wound up by the “children NEVER lie!” brigade 🙄.

Oceanus · 23/05/2022 22:59

Have a look at the actual book with the ripped pages. Are those pages really gone? If those pages are gone it's probably true and you should escalate it.
Mental health has been going downhill and teachers aren't immune. If it's true -and be sure that you really believe it- take it up to the powers that be if your DD agrees.
Personally, I think it's utterly inappropriate for a teacher to rip pages either off a book a notebook belonging to a student and this sounds so ridiculous that I'm actually inclined to believe your kid.
No matter what the student writes the teacher has to suck it up not "rip pages off".

RogueBorg · 23/05/2022 23:03

@Kidsaregrim I’m absolutely not saying kids should be immediately disbelieved, I’m suggesting a proportionate response is to start by getting the teacher’s side first.

The frothing at the mouth, ESCALATE IT TO THE HEAD!” response when it’s not even been discussed with the teacher is plain daft. If the teacher has no reasonable explanation or is rude or defensive then obviously take it further but it’s the constant over reactions on these threads that are so exhausting.

rnsaslkih · 23/05/2022 23:04

You need to toughen her up. Tell her that some people in life are not very nice and that we have to do our best to move forwards regardless. That if she was happy with the effort she put in, then so are you and it's time to forget about it.

If she has cried from 3:30 until 8:15, it's just disproportionate. People are nasty and she needs to have enough self confidence, belief and self esteem to hold her head up high and not get dragged down by nastiness.

Complaining to the school will do nothing. The head teacher usually defends the others. If this teacher is actually a bully, she will bully your dd some more. And, this could have been a misunderstanding anyway.

Hope54321 · 23/05/2022 23:07

Why is this not believable? When I was in secondary school, we had a graphic’s teacher who would rip up work he didn’t approve of and would loudly say the work “looks like a dog’s dinner”.

mellongoose · 23/05/2022 23:11

rnsaslkih · 23/05/2022 23:04

You need to toughen her up. Tell her that some people in life are not very nice and that we have to do our best to move forwards regardless. That if she was happy with the effort she put in, then so are you and it's time to forget about it.

If she has cried from 3:30 until 8:15, it's just disproportionate. People are nasty and she needs to have enough self confidence, belief and self esteem to hold her head up high and not get dragged down by nastiness.

Complaining to the school will do nothing. The head teacher usually defends the others. If this teacher is actually a bully, she will bully your dd some more. And, this could have been a misunderstanding anyway.

In which case that 'teacher' needs to be disciplined. How on earth can they set a good example to children with such atrocious behaviour?

Believe your DD, OP.

Happymum12345 · 23/05/2022 23:14

I had a parent on my very first day of teaching, extremely cross with me for ripping up her dd’s work. I had not-& never would. I learnt a valuable lesson that day-children, unfortunately do not always tell the truth. It works both ways though-children say all sorts about their parents!

frostedfruit · 23/05/2022 23:22

Ask the teacher.
My boy at 10 came home upset and cross and in trouble for being rude to his teacher. He told me she said his drawing of a Christmas tree was rubbish and he said 'that's a horrible thing to say'. She said don't answer back and he got in trouble. She reiterated this exact story. She said if a child asks if she likes their picture she tells them exactly what he thinks. No tact whatsoever.

frostedfruit · 23/05/2022 23:24

*she

Oceanus · 23/05/2022 23:36

"You need to toughen her up"

Exactly how would this toughen her up if true!? Figures of authority are not above what's right and wrong. It it's true and the DM does zilch, the DD will learn "people high up in the food chain" are not to be challenged no matter what, she'll learn to be a sheep and not have an opinion because disagreeing means she'll be out in the cold by herself. Next time sth truly bloody serious happens she'll keep her mouth shut because she'llfeel like DM won't believe her so why bring it up?
OP talk your kid, if you believe her, ask her whether she wants you to take it up. Do ask, if she says no, follow her lead but let her know you believe her (even if you don't...). You don't want your kid hiding stuff in the future because "it's so ridiculous and I didn't think you'd belive me". Keep the lines of communication open.

Oceanus · 23/05/2022 23:37

*believe

Lavenderlast · 23/05/2022 23:38

Kidsaregrim · 23/05/2022 20:28

Oh my goodness, you know your child. So much damage has been don over the years from adults not listening to the voice of a child. I think mumsnet have some right old fibbers as offspring, whenever there is a post like this people jump on to say that never happened - they were not there!

it would not hurt to call the teacher and explain your DD made you aware of an incident and would she mind giving you her account, at least that way you could satisfy the vipers on here that you absolutely believe nothing your child says! 🙄

And please carry on listening and standing up for your daughter and showing her she can trust you

This

ILoveMyLifeToday · 23/05/2022 23:39

I have quite a few teacher friends and family and can see this happening. Teachers are normally people and have off days. Some are nice and some aren't so much.

WildCoasts · 23/05/2022 23:40

I believe your daughter, OP. I remember teachers doing this sort of thing when I was at school. I also remember them throwing chalk and dusters, using rulers and belts and other things to whack children, drawing circles on the board and getting a child to stand with their nose touching inside the circle, just being generally horrible and abusive. We were just expected to suck it up. At least if you support your daughter she will remember that you did.

ZebraLyghts · 23/05/2022 23:41

Ha this reminds me of my first year at uni when my lecturer wasn't happy with a piece of work I'd done for a group project (I'd written something and not checked a particular fact properly..). He took my bit of work and screwed it up, and threw it at me but had rubbish aim; he missed and hit another girl on the head with it😆the shame

Knackeredmommy · 23/05/2022 23:46

I remember my teacher doing that to me, she ripped up the page too so I couldn't even copy what I'd already written. Speak to the teacher first, tell her DD came home upset and why and see what she says.