To hate most mixed sex fitting rooms

[Humbold]

I haven't been out shopping much post-Covid because it seemed pointless when the fitting rooms were closed. Went with my teenage daughter to pick up some summer clothes this week and was shocked by how many stores have gone for mixed sex changing rooms.

First stop was Primark. Headed to fitting room and noticed the mixed queue, got to the head and was pointed to changing area "it's mixed just pick any cubicle". I was a bit surprised but went with it thinking it would be fine as long as there were self-contained cubicles with floor-to-ceiling lockable doors. Got met with row upon row of curtained cubicles, hard to see which ones were occupied without angling myself to check down the gap at the side (they never seem to close over properly without much faffing) or looking at the bottom to see if I could see feet. Gingerly opened one and to my relief it was free. I hated it.

I was trying on a dress that involved me taking my shoes off and stripping down to my bra and knickers. My elbow would move the curtain every now and again so I was constantly checking it was closed over properly. I could hear teenage lads walking past and the girl in the next cubicle was squeezed in with her boyfriend who was chatting away. It was crazy. I felt so vulnerable and tense so didn't bother trying my other 2 dresses on.

Previously I would have got an outfit on and maybe if I needed help with the zip or wanted my friend/daughter's opinion I would come out into the communal area and look in the full length mirror. I might come out partially dressed (unbuttoned, unzipped etc...) and ask an assistant for the next size up etc... But there's no way you can do that in this mixed setting. When I pulled back the curtain there was a man waiting at the end of one row, looking on his phone, probably just waiting on his wife or girlfriend. It just felt wrong.

I remember when there were communal changing rooms and they were bad enough but at least they weren't mixed. My DD said she went to H&M with her boyfriend and they were exactly the same - just curtained. Her boyfriend came in and just sat on the floor at the end of a row of curtained cubicles and she said it didn't feel right but didn't say anything.

I've been to Cos and their changing rooms are completely self-contained, lockable, floor-to-ceiling cubicles. It's on a much smaller scale too which helps - probably a max of 10 cubicles. I can deal with that. But since when did shops think they could pile in 30/40/50 curtained spaces and mix in men with women and make the changing experience so bloody horrible? I haven't been in an M&S changing room for a while - are any of theirs going mixed? I'm concerned it's becoming a trend and I don't understand why.

As a young girl I'd have been worried about lads pulling back curtains 'accidentally'. As an adult I'm worried about anyone pulling back a curtain and exposing me in a state of undress but more uncomfortable if there's a chance my best mate's Dad is stood there! I'm not keen on shopping at the best of times but if this is the way things are going, it's online all the way for me. The High Street can do one.

AIBU?

@Holly60
I don't really get why it's different with men though. I've always done the uncomfortable dance even in single sex changing rooms. Why is the fact that some of the people happen to have willies more uncomfortable? 😂

TBH I would rather I knew men were present than, in a female only space, encountering a person choosing to identify as female.

I took my 12 year old DD into H&M. She was obviously very uncomfortable with the boys sitting on the sofa in the changing room just outside the cubicle while she was changing. The curtains didn't close across properly so I had to hold them.

It was very unfair on her.

Do women get naked when trying clothes on? I think most men would tend to keep their underwear on.

You can't really try a bra or a bikini top on with your underwear on FFs. Typical males having zero understanding of the issues women face and thinning they can comment.

I really don’t want to be in my bra and knickers behind a flappy curtain with men around either Geordie quite aside from when trying on bras (or sun dresses, swimwear, or anything else you would might take your bra off to try on).
Anyway, why is just not wanting to use mixed sex changing rooms not enough of a reason for shops to stop with this nonsense? I also don’t want to be in a mixed sex hospital ward with one of those arse exposing gowns on. NOT because any man would be dying to look at my arse, just because I don’t want to. That should be enough of reason.

In that case why don't we do away with separate cubicles completely? In fact, do away with changing rooms and try clothes on on the shop floor!

I have to say I avoid clothes shops which do this unless the doors are properly lockable and open onto the shop floor or an open space as I suffer from slightly from anxiety and being naked or semi-clothes in a communal space would make me feel anxious.

Shame my feelings don't count.

I assume we are going back to the good old days when men can flash at women and children and it's just accepted that's the price we pay for being female and more vulnerable

My local Primark has this too. I knew the main changing rooms were mixed-sex but had naively thought the ones right next to the lingerie and children's clothes wouldn't be. Started trying on bras then heard two young men chatting in the cubicle next to mine, with another walking back and forth. Later spoke to the assistant who was very nice but said the only other option would be to use the disabled cubicle, which was the only one fully enclosed and lockable. Hardly fair on disabled people, of course, and anyway not the point. Needless to say I won't be back. Did tweet them but they didn't have the courtesy to reply. The complete disregard for women's safety and privacy makes me so mad. The only solution is for women and girls en masse to boycott these stores and to tell them why. Hit their profits and they'll take notice.

It's worse than that. In the WiSpa incident we were told that the 9 year old girl who was flashed by the sex offender was rude and the one in the wrong for looking. 🤬

I hate them, and I’ve boycotted JL/ Waitrose since JL announced with a fanfare of rainbow glitter that people could ‘change in whichever changing room they felt comfortable using’. I pointed out to JL that this was actively excluding women who were uncomfortable with men in their changing rooms (including women with religious beliefs) and they didn’t care at all.

Even if you set aside the extremely pertinent facts that 98% of sexual assault/ assault is perpetrated by men and that mixed sex changing rooms leave women and children (not even just girls) more vulnerable to assault, flashing and abuse than a single sex changing room, it’s also important to remember that single sex changing rooms purely for reasons of privacy and dignity are PERFECTLY REASONABLE.

It is not weird, bigoted, irrational or rude to want to be in a space with members of your own sex when you’re in a position of slight vulnerability. Whether that’s for undressing or using the loo. We are biologically primed to be wary around strangers of the opposite sex so it is a totally natural and reasonable response to want single sex changing rooms.

I don’t give a flying fuck what ‘gender’ the women sharing that space identify as (so no, I don’t have any issue with transmen in the changing room). I don’t care about her age, sexuality, political views or religious views. I just want to share it with women.

I much prefer mixed to single sex communal if those are the only choices. I won't use communal facilities at all.

There was a 12-year-old raped in the female toilets of our local Sainsbury’s on a Sunday afternoon in broad daylight. He was interrupted otherwise god knows how much worse it might have been.

Women need to be protected from predatory men and one way of always ensuring that we would to be able to challenge them in the “wrong place” and go what the hell are you doing in the female toilets/changing rooms etc

No offense, but you are being naive in saying that.

What makes you think it wasn’t a transwoman that had soiled the dress?

I just don't do it now.
Saw a real specimen prowling m&s changing and left without even trying the coat on.
I need a gallbladder operation but can't bring myself to have it after being flashed at in the recovery room a few years ago.

Have you been in an M and S recently? The one near us is unisex and I don't like them. Admittedly they have doors rather than curtains, which I think should be the bare minimum standard for mixed sex changing rooms. I wouldn't use them if they just had curtains, which are always insecure and clearly not designed for maximum privacy.

Horrible, would not be buying anything from those shops. They should always be floor to ceiling cubicles anyway, much better, have had kids running around pulling back the curtains, not great when you're trying on bras etc, but the thought of teenage lads/pervy men just the other side (or under the bottom) is appalling. They will certainly be losing customers, especially older ones. Complain at great length.

I don’t have an issue if a trans woman wants to use the changing room as they still have curtains, but would rather not share with men.

So you’d share with transwomen but not men. transwomen being biologically identical (95% of the time) to……. Men.

Also when I went to M and S very recently the area just inside the changing rooms and before the corridor to the cubicles was full of men sitting on the sofas. My husband did the old fashioned thing and stayed outside. If I wanted to show him any of the clothes I was trying on I had to parade past the watching men and it was very uncomfortable for me.

Just as well I buy most of my clothes online from a few trusted companies. I don't risk all the trying on in random shops any more. It's a bit limiting, but I don't feel I have any other choice.

Has @Grumpybutfunny not been back yet to back up their assertion that women are apparently as dangerous as men?

Knock me down with a feather!

The vast majority of transwomen have a penis and are more than capable of ejaculating. Biological men in changing rooms are the problem, full stop.

Call it for what it is.

Men engaged in child sex abuse.

These men may know the child they are photographing.

The photos are being taken by the man to have child sex abuse imagery, for personal use and possibly for trading imagery with others.

Exactly this!

Im disgusted at the way society is going

You disliked my comment so much you quoted me twice!
I can’t know that it wasn’t a trans woman, but I also can’t recall that I’ve ever been in the changing room with a trans woman - not that I’ve noticed anyway. Certainly seen some dodgy-looking men hanging around though.
I suspect most genuine trans people avoid single sex public changing rooms for fear of being ostracised. However I still feel it shouldn’t be a free for all. Maybe big stores could offer both a women’s and a unisex section?
If a predatory ‘trans woman’ is dressed up to look enough like a biological woman at a passing glance and entered a women’s changing room, then unfortunately it would be incredibly difficult for changing room attendants to police. As with most things in life, there are always a few that spoil things for everyone else.
It gets more complicated if we say trans men can come in if they’re biologically female - how would that work? Would they need to announce themselves in the queue?

Yeah but I think there’s a big difference between genuine trans women who just want to buy some clothes, and the fetishised, pretend ‘trans women’ who get off on putting themselves in women’s spaces.

I don't know anyone who uses changing rooms. I haven't used one in years. Can't be arsed with the faff.