To hate most mixed sex fitting rooms

[Humbold]

I haven't been out shopping much post-Covid because it seemed pointless when the fitting rooms were closed. Went with my teenage daughter to pick up some summer clothes this week and was shocked by how many stores have gone for mixed sex changing rooms.

First stop was Primark. Headed to fitting room and noticed the mixed queue, got to the head and was pointed to changing area "it's mixed just pick any cubicle". I was a bit surprised but went with it thinking it would be fine as long as there were self-contained cubicles with floor-to-ceiling lockable doors. Got met with row upon row of curtained cubicles, hard to see which ones were occupied without angling myself to check down the gap at the side (they never seem to close over properly without much faffing) or looking at the bottom to see if I could see feet. Gingerly opened one and to my relief it was free. I hated it.

I was trying on a dress that involved me taking my shoes off and stripping down to my bra and knickers. My elbow would move the curtain every now and again so I was constantly checking it was closed over properly. I could hear teenage lads walking past and the girl in the next cubicle was squeezed in with her boyfriend who was chatting away. It was crazy. I felt so vulnerable and tense so didn't bother trying my other 2 dresses on.

Previously I would have got an outfit on and maybe if I needed help with the zip or wanted my friend/daughter's opinion I would come out into the communal area and look in the full length mirror. I might come out partially dressed (unbuttoned, unzipped etc...) and ask an assistant for the next size up etc... But there's no way you can do that in this mixed setting. When I pulled back the curtain there was a man waiting at the end of one row, looking on his phone, probably just waiting on his wife or girlfriend. It just felt wrong.

I remember when there were communal changing rooms and they were bad enough but at least they weren't mixed. My DD said she went to H&M with her boyfriend and they were exactly the same - just curtained. Her boyfriend came in and just sat on the floor at the end of a row of curtained cubicles and she said it didn't feel right but didn't say anything.

I've been to Cos and their changing rooms are completely self-contained, lockable, floor-to-ceiling cubicles. It's on a much smaller scale too which helps - probably a max of 10 cubicles. I can deal with that. But since when did shops think they could pile in 30/40/50 curtained spaces and mix in men with women and make the changing experience so bloody horrible? I haven't been in an M&S changing room for a while - are any of theirs going mixed? I'm concerned it's becoming a trend and I don't understand why.

As a young girl I'd have been worried about lads pulling back curtains 'accidentally'. As an adult I'm worried about anyone pulling back a curtain and exposing me in a state of undress but more uncomfortable if there's a chance my best mate's Dad is stood there! I'm not keen on shopping at the best of times but if this is the way things are going, it's online all the way for me. The High Street can do one.

AIBU?

90%of assaults and incidents of voyeurism occur in mixed sex changing rooms.

The perpetrators are men, their victims are women and children.

You cannot seriously think men aren't any more dangerous than women? The average man is bigger, stronger and more likely to commit a sexual offence than the average woman.

Erm, I say this as gently as possible Grumpy, but are you all right?

92% of female murder victims in the most recent year for recordings were killed by men. The figure may be higher when taking biological sex into account.

"In England and Wales a total of 40,572 women were victims of sexual assault in the year ending September 2021, an increase of 13% from the previous year (35,029 offences). This is the highest number of sexual offences ever recorded within a 12-month period....Police statistics do not report the gender of the attacker in sexual assault offences." They don't do that because they don't need to. "In the year ending September 2021, 41,332 women were victims of rape, also the highest annual figure recorded to date. This is an increase of 10% from the previous year (37,502 offences)." It is believed that the unreported figure is much higher. Contrary to common belief, 2/3 of these offences were committed by strangers.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-56365412

I hardly think that what you experienced at school amongst your known peer group is comparable to being expected to change in front of complete strangers.

Those women convicted of sex crimes, can we have he list of them please.

Thanks.

Because many of them are males.

YANBU My DD tried something on at H&M the other day, the changing room was in the women's section, but it was just curtains and the space completely open on one side rather than the usual passage into the bit with cubicles, with a load of blokes (who I assume were partners, but who knows?) staring at curtains with gaps at the side and bottom where teenage girls were changing. It felt very unsavoury. Surely decent men would just wander off a bit, or do they just not think?

I wear swim shorts and a rash vest on the beach, because I don't feel comfortable in less - I certainly wouldn't want to be that on show in a place where I have the expectation of privacy.

And that's not for religious reasons, just my own comfort, although by mixing changing rooms you're potentially excluding a lot of women due to their religion as well.

YANBU. I really don't like it.

I hate it also .But also cannot stand when men think they can shilly shally through the lingerie department.There I am trying on a thousand bras and some eejit of a man walking backwards and forwards bringing his wife stuff to try on but always peeping through the curtain when passing.

Are you actually fucking kidding me?

I will not use mixed sex changing rooms. Who the fuck thinks that’s a good idea. 🙄

I was videoed in a mixed sex changing room. The man was just walking up and down filming. The staff did nothing. It was Topshop/Topman in Leeds. It has shut now.

You are either stupid, a troll or a mens rights activist. Men carry out well over 90% of sex crimes.

men aren't anymore dangerous than woman, plenty of woman have been convicted of sex crimes.

@Grumpybutfunny are you going to quantify that claim?

From Govt statistics 98% sexual assault perpetrated by men. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/natureofsexualassaultbyrapeorpenetrationenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020

At least we've not yet had "should lesbians be banned from changing rooms too?"

’Mixed sex changing room put women at increased risk of sexual assault, harassment, and voyeurism.’

This. Though I’d change it to women and girls. Teenaged girls are more vulnerable, more likely to be targeted and less likely (than older women) to challenge or report behaviour.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/met-officer-admits-secretly-filming-woman-primark/

A met police officer admitted secretly filming a woman in Primark changing rooms.

twitter.com/SuzzanBlac/status/1453001944373604367

There have been many more too ....

They know that mixed-sex changing rooms are more dangerous - but just for females. So it doesn't matter. I don't shop on the hughstreet anymore - I order online and I send loads back.

It honestly wouldn't bother me. You were no less clothed than you would be on the beach or in the swimming pool.

That's really great for you isn't it. You can get changed right in the middle of the store, you don't even need changing rooms at all. Smashing 😊

For most of us though, we prefer the privacy of a changing area away from prying eyes and the safeguarding of not being vulnerable around males who may or may not be predatory.

I don't like them at all.
There are some changing facilities near me at a water feature very popular with children. I was advised by the attendant not to leave DD to change alone and to effectively stand guard by the door as they have a huge issue with men taking photos under the doors.

I had no idea this was happening until I heard a man coughing next to me in a primark changing room, I got out of there pretty quickly and won't be using them again, it's ridiculous!

I hate them too. I’m not scared of men in changing rooms on the whole I just don’t want to strip off next to them. If I had female children I would be very unhappy about them changing behind flimsy curtains with men and older boys around. Also I watched that documentary about South Korea and the epidemic of secret filming which made me really conscious of how easy it is to plant filming devices places. Why make it easier for perverts, I don’t get it??

I think I might write to H&M and Primark and see why they've done this. Is it a space saving issue? Or do they think people genuinely don't mind? Have they asked their customers via surveys? It just seems quite a rash thing to do. I half expected my DD to give me a bit of an eye-roll but she felt the same. She hasn't had a huge amount of shopping experience be ause of Covid and would probably just buy something and take it back if it didn't fit. But I thought it would be an enjoyable thing to do and we could have a bit of a laugh trying on stuff that we'd probably not consider normally. This experience felt like a grit-your-teeth ordeal to be got through as quickly as possible. Not conducive to selling more clothes I don't think.

I wonder if Primark and H&M are doing this UK-wide or just trialling it in certain cities?

Here's why OP:

We have to have men in our changing rooms - to the point of them being "mixed sex" because it's not fair on shop assistants to put them in the position of policing the men who enter. Any man is a woman if he says so and there's no way of knowing if he's temporarily identifying, just to get the the female space, or he's got a psychological condition that makes him apparently believe he's literally a woman. There's also no way to differentiate these two types of men now, because bring a woman isn't biological, it's how you feel. What a man wears, how he presents, has no bearing on his womanhood.

So it saves the shops a whole lot of hassle, plus being targeted as transphobic by Stonewall and Mermaids, as well as randoms on Twitter who start boycotts, if women just accept that they are being silly if they feel uncomfortable around men. After all, silly woman, not only might that man be a woman, he may also see women in his daily life so why would he think anything about your body? Also, there are other women who don't mind getting undressed in front of men - it's just bodies - so you need to get over yourself.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10300295/Bearded-6ft-reporter-let-female-changing-room-stores.html

A DM writer tested it out - but there were actually women’s changing rooms then!

Do women get naked when trying clothes on? I think most men would tend to keep their underwear on.