To be disappointed that DD won’t get a surprise proposal

[Bluebellewoods]

DD is 28 and has been in a relationship with her partner for around a year and a half. They’ve been living together for some time and she tells me they are very happy together. I think the thought of turning 30 in a couple of years has been a big turning point for DD as she’s expressed her desire to get married and think about having children, as she feels time is running out somewhat.

DD tells me that she has decided it’s time to have a chat with her partner about her desire to get married and discuss and agree a timescale for doing so. I can’t help but feel a little sad that in essentially orchestrating her own engagement, DD will lose out on the special surprise moment of a traditional proposal which so many young women get to experience and cherish, which I’d hate for her to miss out on due to her impatience.

DD asked me for my advice on how she should best approach the conversation and I said I’d give it some thought. What I really want to say to her is just wait, she’s still so young and has so much time! I’d understand if DD had been waiting for years, but their relationship is still relatively new and I don’t think rushing an engagement at this time and sacrificing the traditional surprise is justified. AIBU?

That's all well and good but many women get caught out by the house he buys in his name only because it's easier, babies (with his last name), giving up work, "I'll always support you" line, until they break up after she's been out of work for 5 years or more, and she has zero claim on the house, zero savings, zero claim on his pension and ends up living in a rented flat with 2 kids on universal credit.

You can avoid a lot of that risk by getting married.

Breaking up is always shit, married or not.

I don’t see the issue. I remember talking to DH about whether we were ready to get married, surely that’s healthier than taking someone by surprise and putting them in an awkward position if they didn’t want to for whatever reason?
We agreed that yes, we both were and it was what we both wanted - then he started asking me which ring styles I liked!
He proposed on holiday a few weeks later which I’d predicted was coming, but don’t feel like I missed out at all. We made that big life decision together, the same way we hose our home together, planned our wedding together and decided to try for a baby together. Choosing someone to spend your life with should be a partnership imo.

Sorry, *chose not hose!

Your DD sounds very sensible. If that’s what she wants she needs to lay it out. It’s a conversation about how she sees next 5 years, next 10 years and what is none negotiable to her eg no children before marriage. Much more sensible than sitting waiting for proposal getting to 33/34 and realising he’s not in same page at all.
I’ve been married 20 years and never regretted lack of proposal. I also had a no fuss wedding.
There’s also the half way house where they have the conversation he says yes I’m on same page leave it with me and on next holiday etc he asks her with a ring. It will still be nice and a proposal.

I think she has her head screwed on. She knows she'll be 30 soon, which is late fertility wise. Yes absolutely talk with the partner. At least if he turns her down (as in marriage and children) she can move on to someone more suitable, before its too late to conceive.

You can have both.
My partner and myself spoke about what we wanted from our relationship very early on, and both want children and to get married. We decided together to get pregnant this year, are are happily waiting for our first child to arrive.
I have shown my DP the styles of ring I like, and he also very much wants to get married, I have no doubt about that.
The proposal could come in 3 months, or 2 years, either way I'm happy and content in my life with him.

She could have the conversation just to make sure he's on same page, and leave it there, or they could go and plan a wedding straight off the back of it, whatever makes them happy is most important.

I asked my husband to marry me and we have been married 45 years this year, so it doesn't have to be the grand proposal that YOU may have wanted for her, but you are not the one getting married Leave it alone and what will be will be.

@oakleaffy

Divorce is stressful, expensive and upsetting, and can be avoided by not marrying in the first place.

At a personal level I completely agree and wouldn't get married again if my life depended on it, but for many women (primarily those who aren't planning to work after they have children), marriage is a sensible insurance policy.

However if marriage is what you want, it isn't going to be enhanced by a scenario where a man (for whatever reason) has made a twat of himself by springing a scene from a naff 90s romcom on you without your having any inkling that its coming.

Marriage should be a partnership in which both partners participate equally and both are absolutely cognisant of what they are getting into. The idea that its something women silently pine for and men deliver is a fast road to divorce.

Here is my magical, over the top proposal:-
DH and I were walking through a town centre, I stopped to look in a jewellery store as a ring had caught my eye.
Me: Oh that ring is so pretty
DH:- Do you want it?
Me:- Yeah
So, there you go, a Mills and Boon worthy engagement.
That was it! We had a small, non impressive wedding too, been together 32 years and happy as Larry thanks.
You dd sounds like she knows what she wants and she should go for it.

You can have the conversations and the surprise, and your daughter absolutely SHOULD be having the conversations! In this day and age you shouldn’t be completely shocked when someone proposes - it should be something you both know you want and have discussed what your marriage will look like in my opinion

Totally agree, but the last time I said this I got flamed because apparently just having a conversation about getting married 'is the proposal'

I would never encourage my daughter to get engaged to someone she has known for less than 2 years though. It doesn't feel long enough to get to know someone you'll spend your life with. You haven't gone through the 'hard bits' together, that's when it really counts.

Everyone is having babies in their mid-thirties now, she shouldn't feel rushed.

My husband wanted to make the big grand gesture....he had all sorts of plans but something always scuppered his plans at the last minute and so he didn't propose. I got bored of waiting... and I just set a date and he agreed. He always goes on about how he had all these plans but in my view gestures are nothing if they don't happen and whilst your DD is only 28, time moves quickly.

I find the traditional proposal outdated and sexist. Good for your daughter wanting an equal part in the decision-making about her own life.

I agree but the point is the OP seems to think the proposal is almost more important than the marriage and seems to be actively discouraging her daughter from playing an active role in this.

I think she means well but her attitude is slightly frightening in this day and age tbh.

That's not orchestrating proposal. Of course one should discuss the timelines and the future of their relationship, she's not a teenager and 1.5 years at their age is rather on the late side never having discussed their plans at all.

What is the other option, sit quietly assuming he has the same plans until she's 38 and the partner declares that he never wanted marriage and children and why did she even assume otherwise?

And of course she can still have an old-fashioned surprise proposal if she wants. They should discuss if they see themselves getting married in the near future, but leave the exact time and manner of getting engaged, open.

"I can’t help but feel a little sad that in essentially orchestrating her own engagement, DD will lose out on the special surprise moment of a traditional proposal which so many young women get to experience and cherish, which I’d hate for her to miss out on due to her impatience."

The idea that women 'cherish' their 'special surprise moment' - let's have a think about that. Women waiting to be proposed to, fearing being the left-on-the-shelf spinster. No agency, it's the man's choice.

That may have been a thing in the world of teenaged virgin brides where no woman 'lived in sin' or (oh! the horror!) had children with a man she wasn't married to. I personally am glad that that world has gone. I don't feel it was a world to cherish, it feels quite alien to me.

That may have been a thing in the world of teenaged virgin brides where no woman 'lived in sin' or (oh! the horror!) had children with a man she wasn't married to. I personally am glad that that world has gone. I don't feel it was a world to cherish, it feels quite alien to me.

Absolutely

Agree 100%

She can have a conversation about his future plans so she knows if she is wasting her time with him or not. If she wants her future to be with a family she has to know now. On the other hand you're right she doesn't have to hurry.

The idea that women 'cherish' their 'special surprise moment'

I know, right? Pass the fucking sick bag.

Although I now reckon OP's just dropped a Goady Bomb & ain't coming back ...

Mostly this. She doesn't live in a Disney film, she can manage her relationship how she wants.

Most modern "proposals" are completely fake. Usually, the woman has already asked the man to marry her - to all intents and purposes, she has proposed to him. But our society stigmatises women who propose marriage, so she tells him to get down on one knee and pretend to ask her to marry him, even though she's already told him the answer. She then posts a photo on social media and tells her friends the "romantic proposal story", even though it was all a charade. Your daughter isn't missing out on anything - behind the scenes, most engagements are secretly initiated by the woman.

This was my proposal. My partner sat me down and said "Well we've been together for years now and I think we both know what the next step is." There was a dramatic pause then he said "So don't you think it's time to split up?". After a while he said "Just kidding, shall we get married?". This was perfect for me. I hate anything overly romantic and cheesey. If he got down on one knee I would have told him to get up immediately! We already knew we'd get married. We'd talked about it a lot, had a baby and a house. He just felt pressurised to do some formal proposal which he really didn't need to! I'm so pleased he made a joke out of it.

You are totally valid to feel how you feel, but engagements are largely horseshit. Its the assumption that the woman is just waiting around to be asked, when the man is FINALLY ready to commit.

It sounds like two very grown up adults secure in their relationship are discussing their future.

It doesnt mean their wedding wont be lovely and romantic.

With all respect, give your head a wobble.

MN is weirdly bah humbug about proposals and these kind of threads always bring out this type of poster.

Meanwhile, in the real normal world, it's perfectly possible within a couple to have a general discussion about whether marriage is something you want - along with would you want kids / how many / when; where do you see yourself living / working .... whatever. Just general conversations couples have to see if they're on the same page.

Similarly - any man in a relationship should instinctively know the type of proposal his partner would want - so he will just do that. If she's shy, he's hardly going to make a big hoopla. He'll just ask her privately.

I mean, how hard can this be?

On MN, it either gets presented as this dramatic divide between "princesses" waiting for years on end; or these very matter of fact, "I just sat him at the table" types. As if there's nothing in between!

Also, any type of proposal is assumed to be naff and cringe or "Disney" - with all sorts of doom and gloom forecasts about "the type of man who proposes."

The fact is, most men do propose in some way and it doesn't need to be a spectacle at all. It's personal!

When my husband proposed, he got down on one knee on some cliffs in Italy. It's wasn't cringe and it wasn't a scene for anyone else or Instagram or whatever. I was delighted, but it wasn't exactly total shock. Similarly, I don't think he would have asked if he thought I'd say no! Anyway, it's a lovely memory to have and we've since taken out kids to that place. What's wrong with that and why shouldn't a man make the effort?

OP, I think you're worrying about nothing. Your DD will probably just initiate a conversation about the future in general. He'll probably propose in the near future. No drama.