To hope Amber Heard is lying?

[roadsweep]

Otherwise it's just another abused woman that's not believed.

Not true. In the London trial she was the witness not the defendant and the judgement is questionable given the judge's son works for the man who owns the newspaper Depp was suing.

What both trials have established is that Heard is certainly an abuser regardless of whether Depp is and that there's very little real evidence to support her version of events. She's also been caught lying lots of times.

"Why does everyone think she is lying?"

Because she plainly is. Her story is constantly being contradicted by witnesses. Plus, she's really over egging the pudding with her tales of abuse, going full Jussie Smollett. She is pretending she was being beaten black and blue with multiple broken noses and black eyes and hair ripped out, injuries which would be impossible to hide for someone with her level of fame, especially given the invasive nature of gossip sites and paparazzi.

"Oh the Johnny bots are out in force again
Johnny is an abuser"

Oh the Amber bots are out in force again
Amber is an abuser

Anyone can play this game

leadmeaway · 06/05/2022 14:25

!I cant believe how many women feel the need to defend Depp just because they fancy him as an actor and are like a rabbit fan base."

Is that Playboy bunnies for Depp?

"I normally defend men from the all men are armholes on here."

Call them legholes if you must, but never armholes!

@Agrudge
From experience (and I don't even think that's necessary to understand the basics) the abuser is the one with the power. Be it strength, money, popularity... Anything!

I had very toxic relationships with two men - my exH (he was a cop) and an exBF (who was rich and had everyone's opinions in his money'd pocket).

They both felt above the law and safe from being ousted.

I'm not saying Amber is an "innocent" and neither was I. Did I scream? Yes. Did I kick? Yes. Did I swear? Yes. I even ripped the curtains down with the pole once, after being abused for hours and told that anything I may have contributed to the house is a pile of shit. That would have made a great mad-woman video!

I'd have loved to see the rich guy throwing glasses of water over me if I could have made him homeless in 5mins flat or given a good punch.

Abuse is proactive, not reactive. Abusers abuse and bullies bully because they feel they can! Did Amber feel she can abuse Johnny Depp? I'll say "I don't know", for the truths sake. Would JD feel like he "can"? You bet! Cause he can indeed.

Oh, and the rich guy had mostly "girl - fans" who were fiercely defending of him even though one of the fans herself had some dodgy experiences with that guy.
After all, he was always there to help, always the soul of the party, incredibly generous with his money and time.

Just, you know, troubled.. A poor troubled soul.

Tbf, I don't even think about Amber much in this case. Johnny reminds of THOSE guys too much. To a T. Including the "girl fans".

There seems to be an issue with the idea that any victim - be they male or female - cannot be a victim unless they are "perfect".

It is seen both in the narrative that JD wouldn't harm a fly - despite evidence to the contrary, albeit not direct evidence in these cases of DV (eg demolishing the hotel room with KM), and also the claim that because AH (allegedly, according to her testimony) fought back against an abuser, she cannot be a victim.

Whether arguing that JD is a victim, or AH isn't, they rely on the portrayal of a "victim" as being purely passive, with no obvious flaws.

This has nothing to do with your experiences

Maybe JD actions were reactive to AH proactive abuse.

Like you said we dont know .

Its obvious that lots of people struggle with anything other than the simplest of narratives. Black/white, right/wrong.

So there's a strong contingent blocking out lots of really problematic stuff with regards to Depp's behaviour (that aren't even in dispute) and picking on Heard's every facial expression.

And regardless of the rights and wrongs of this case (there's quite clearly abuse on both sides) the implications for abused women are horrific. All those young girls seeing mobs on Twitter proudly declaring themselves Team Burnt Out Corpse Fucker. It's shocking.

Brilliantly said.

Bagelsandbrie · 06/05/2022 14:28

"I don’t really understand the hate she’s getting in all honesty."

It's not hard to understand. She implied in an article that she was the innocent victim of abuse when she in fact was abusive (in all probability the primary or sole abuser) and piggy backed onto the metoo movement with her fairy tale of woe. People can't stand hypocrisy and especially loathe a violent hypocrite.

The majority were on her side until the tapes came out as well as the other evidence which proves she is both abusive and a liar. The only evidence of his abuse comes from her mouth, the mouth of a known liar.

I know this is really, really hard to understand... but even if she is a proven liar on various other subjects - liars can be abused too. Her being a liar is not definitive proof that she was not abused.

@Agrudge Well you asked me Why I think the way I do! Hence why.

One needs to have some sort of power to abuse it.

Does it exclude two psychos? Of course not. It, however, excludes Johnny for being an only poor victim in this and Amber being the witch. He had all the power to abuse and all the power to quit.

I think they're both mad if only for the fact that they have forced each other to live through this publicly. That I find hard to understand!

Agree with those PP who have said they’re both as bad as each other. I am V on the fence. As other PP have said, this is a case about did he abuse her. Yes he did, it’s v clear. Regardless of what she did back, instead, etc.

He will lose this case, she prob won’t win her case.

But, I’ve very much noticed this adoration for him, his quips, his style of responding etc from men who seen his films years ago, and seem to just love his style of dealing with this .

They’ve not “forced each other to live this publicly”. Depp sued Heard over an article where his name wasn’t mentioned.

After getting the case heard in Fairfax Virginia, instead of California, because FFX is less favourable for first amendment arguments

After losing on a very similar matter in the UK. And again on appeal.

Remember Trump v Clinton in 2016 when everyone shrugged and said “oh they’re both as bad as each other!!”. It reminds me of that.

BeyondPurpleTulips · 07/05/2022 18:15

"I know this is really, really hard to understand... but even if she is a proven liar on various other subjects - liars can be abused too. Her being a liar is not definitive proof that she was not abused."

It's not hard to understand at all and you're right, liars can be abused. They also can't be believed so no-one should be convicted or condemned on their word unless there's independent evidence. Heard has none. All she has is allegations.

QueenCamilla · 07/05/2022 18:15

"Well you asked me Why I think the way I do! Hence why.

One needs to have some sort of power to abuse it.

Does it exclude two psychos? Of course not. It, however, excludes Johnny for being an only poor victim in this and Amber being the witch. He had all the power to abuse and all the power to quit."

What on earth are you talking about? What power? Are you one of those people who analyse everything in terms of power (race, sex, class etc.) and neatly slots people into categories of victim and perpetrator based on that ludicrously inaccurate and oversimplistic way of looking at the word?

What power does Depp have which Heard doesn't?

@QueenCamilla is essentially saying white men will never be able to be a victim of anything.

A narrative that's widely accepted on MN

I was a victim of DV and very severe emotional abuse. It turned me into someone I hated. I developed a drink problem. I ended up shouting and screaming at him. And yes I even hit him. I’ve never before acted like that with anyone else and I never will again. But he made me lose my mind. I genuinely look back and don’t recognise myself. Is someone only a victim if they sit there passively and take everything the abuser dishes out?

Had someone seen a snapshot of our relationship in the latter stages, they would also have said it was “toxic” (I don’t disagree with that). They would have also said we were as bad as each other. They wouldn’t have seen how he took a nice, kind woman and destroyed her to that point where she became someone else.

Is that what happened here? I don’t know. I don’t follow it and I don’t want to. But in general people need to understand that someone can still be a victim even if they don’t always behave well themselves.

Absolutely. I'm sorry you have endured a shite man too

what power does Depp have that Heard doesn't? that's not a serious question is it? If it is then I suggest you give yourself a very stern talking-to until you are able to see things more clearly. Asking such a question is embarassing. For you.

@QueenCamilla is essentially saying white men will never be able to be a victim of anything.

A narrative that's widely accepted on MN

Errrmmm.. You are factually wrong of course. Also really not sure what the race has got to do with this!

However (like in this case) when there's a man and a woman in the room and we're talking about who habitually beat up / raped whom, you'd be dim to not see the odds.

I have never been in any sustained way beaten, raped, bullied or tormented by someone weaker (and not solely in physical sense) than me. Have you?

QueenCamilla · 08/05/2022 15:15

"However (like in this case) when there's a man and a woman in the room and we're talking about who habitually beat up / raped whom, you'd be dim to not see the odds.

I have never been in any sustained way beaten, raped, bullied or tormented by someone weaker (and not solely in physical sense) than me. Have you?"

I generally don't like the phrase but it is very apt here: you really need to educate yourself. You need to learn about female abusers and male victims of female abuse. Both are common enough.

Often men feel unable to fight back because they don't think they will be believed, a realistic belief given the existence of people like you. Often they become demoralised and don't fight back or even come to believe they deserve violence. The difference in sizes doesn't necessarily determine who is the abused and who the abuser.

You should start with the Jordan Worth case. It might help correct your bias and enlighten your ignorance. He was close to death and saved by policeman who was intelligent enough to see something was wrong despite his denials and persistent enough to get him alone and get the truth from him. Her sentence was fairly lenient given the severity of her abuse, as is usually the case with women who get much shorter sentences than men for the same crimes.

You keep trying to force the narrative that as many men are abused as women, this is patently not true, however many posts you hijack with this nonsense