AIBU to dread telling my DD no

[Funkyslippers]

DD (13) has got it in her head that she'd like to be homeschooled. She says she hates getting up early for school, being around people she doesn't like (most of the other pupils!), wasting time in lessons and not really learning anything (hard for me to comment on that as we haven't even had a parents' evening yet this year). After much persuasion on her part, I said I couldn't make a decision until I'd done some research. Well now I have and I've decided it won't work for her, for many reasons, mainly because she'd be on her own all day and is not particularly motivated and really quite lazy and there'd be noone to support her learning or check any gaps. Also she would have very little social interaction. I've already made these points to her but she had an answer for both but I've still made up my mind.

But she's set her heart on this and is absolutely convinced it's the right thing for her. I'm dreading going home later as she will start on at me again and I know once I've said no she will be heartbroken and angry. I hate to think of her unhappy at school but I'm not really sure she is, well no more than the average kid. I know school can be a bit of a chore but we all have to go through it and come out the other side.

I know I need to grow some but I just don't know how to handle this sensitively but getting my point across without an argument.

I’m sorry you and your dd are struggling so much. Did you start a new thread? No advanced search now… I would co sleep with your dd. I did with my dd for a few years. We then changed her bedroom after the first term of her being in secondary (this worked well as she settled in first) but ordered everything on the basis she’d have to sleep in it. She never looked back. Once children go to secondary if not before, they want privacy.

Can't believe some people are suggesting negotiations, trials or even entertaining it. This is a whim come from a very young teens perception of a marketed social media page. Fair enough she doesn't like school as lots of 13 year olds don't but if she's struggling socially then completely withdrawing from opportunities to socialise isn't ideal. OP says herself dd isn't a motivated learner and barely engaged with any lockdown schooling. Almost no 13 year olds would self learn rather than watch Netflix or tik tok left alone all day every day and it certainly sounds like OP's dd wouldn't be any exception. As pp's have said the technically possible proposal from OP isn't home education it's dropping out of school at 13. Whilst home education done right is is brilliant for some it's not an option for this family. Calling bluffs and negotiations will only extend hope and lead to more resentment in the long term. A firm no, it's not possible is what's needed here.

@liveforsummer exactly. At 13 you would need to be fairly academic to be teaching your own child whilst working too. Gosh I have enough with the homework and ferrying to school clubs. No thanks!

There's a lot of silly things on YouTube and unrealistic ideas I think you need to drill into your DD that a lot of things on there are not real and it's just a form of entertainment to get viewers. Honestly my DS gets too into YouTube also at times.

I voted YABU. For the reason that I think it's ridiculous you don't just shoot it down in flames. My parents would have laughed me out of town and told me to suck it up. They would have told me how lucky I was to have the opportunity to be educated to 18 and beyond and to stop being so spoilt. My mum and both my partner's parents didn't have the opportunity to receive a full secondary education despite clearly being intelligent.

Did you talk to her op?

At around that age i hated school aswell wasnt engaging no teacher help most of them jsut said i was lazy i left at 15 in those days you could get away with it though

I think there’s more to her not wanting to attend school: is she being bullied or targeted by a teacher? You need to find out the real reason, rather than her just not wanting to get up early, not liking her classmates. Have you suggested moving her to a different school? She will have to learn to live with getting up early for work and having to work with people she doesn’t like.

Home schooling has to be monitored by the local authority. I can't see them ever agreeing that leaving.a child effectively to educate herself with no-one teaching her the vast majority of the time is satisfactory. Just point out to your daughter that the council won't let you do this.

If she gets angry about being told that it's not viable, point out that she has only herself to blame. She's demonstrated that she can't exercise a reasonable degree of self-discipline which would have to be an absolute pre-requisite.

She is just being idealistic because she doesn't want to go to school, and yes she just needs to suck it up.

Given how she was during lockdown, where she was essentially being homeschooled, I think you made a mistake not just saying no straight away and reminding her that she did not engage with you homeschooling her then. But if she kicks off I think it's important you remind her of this now.

I homeschooled my 11YO DD for a year and it was a nightmare. She was so so lazy, refusing to do the work, it was a constant battle, I was in tears every night, we never got a break from one another, I couldn't find enough social opportunities for her. It was a horrible time and I do not look back fondly on it.

Don't do it

Gonna admit I've not looked into it, but I think if you are home schooling then you would be expected to be there and teaching her, not just leaving work to be completed.
That would be the arguement I'd use as well! If you work how can you home school?

Section 436A Education Act 1996:

(1) A local authority must make arrangements to enable them to establish (so far as it is possible to do so) the identities of children in their area who are of compulsory school age but—

(a) are not registered pupils at a school, and

(b) are not receiving suitable education otherwise than at a school.

(2) In exercising their functions under this section a local authority must have regard to any guidance given from time to time by the Secretary of State.

(3) In this Chapter, “suitable education”, in relation to a child, means efficient full-time education suitable to his age, ability and aptitude and to any special educational needs he may have

Section 437:

If it appears to a local authority that a child of compulsory school age in their area is not receiving suitable education, either by regular attendance at school or otherwise, they shall serve a notice in writing on the parent requiring him to satisfy them within the period specified in the notice that the child is receiving such education.

... and then there's lots more about enforcing those orders. And the guidance referred to puts quite a lot more flesh on the bones.

The option to laze if there is no motivation will increase the further she advances into the teenage years. But lazing around is not always a bad thing - it is part of what teenagers do. I can remember doing it at every opportunity!

I am a great believer in home education because I am very aware that the school system is micro-managed by central government to its detriment; and that school simply does not suit some young people and they never really settle. A lot of what they learn represents a throw back to the public school system that spawned our current rulers, and is pretty irrelevant. I left school knowing how translate Latin text, but having not the faintest clue how to change a plug.

I am not of the opinion that it is just something children have to grit their teeth and get on with - how very soul-destroying - and what a waste of youth and childhood, which they will never get back again.

But home education only works if the parent/s are 100% committed to it, are at home a large amount of the time and care deeply about the philosophy behind it. They also need to have masses of time to research, to make contacts with other home educators and be there to set the structure of the day and to monitor this.

I would ask her to list in a systematic way all the things that she dislikes so much about school. She needs to know that you are taking that seriously - because it is serious that she is spending the majority of her life unhappy. Discuss what might be changed to help her settle. Say that you are willing to go and talk with the school about every point - no need to wait for the parents' evening - she needs to know that you are prepared to be proactive on her behalf.

And are there other schools nearby with different philosophies? - Steiner? Montessori?

I do not think that you can possibly home educate and be out at work - the two do not go together, especially if self-motivation is not her skill. She needs to know that the family she saw will have had one parent at home to organise the education day.

But she does need tangible evidence that you are on her side; that you get it; that you care about this. You can't do home education in your circumstances but you might be able to help her feel that you want to find some other way of sorting this.

Blooming Youtube!!

I wouldn't have done even a cursory bit of research. I don't want to do it, my child is not struggling at school, and quite frankly, I already have a full time job and don't want another one.

I would tell her that you've looked into it, it's not feasible and you will not discuss it again, it's not going to happen. I would point out to her that you can't even rely on her to complete <insert menial task that she regularly doesn't do> so you think she has neither the drive nor the maturity to work all day on her own waiting for you to come home. I'd also point out that there is a huge social aspect to school she'd miss out on, and that it's all very lovely for the Fizz Family to be going out to farms and theatres and whatever else they do, but they clearly have a vastly different set up.

I'd probably try and soften the message but like fuck would I be pandering to her!

Yes I hear what you are saying - I was just trying to illustrate that the stuff we learn at school is not always stuff we will use - I know that education is more than that, but for lots of children, especially those who struggle with learning, having to swallow lots of facts or processes that they will never use is a bit of a put-off, and can leave them feeling worthless and bottom of the heap, Under our current system it is hard to be flexible as the curriculum is so rigid.

I am the SEND governor at a primary school and am very conscious that teachers have to "bend the rules" of the curriculum in order to make some of the learning appropriate to the child - I do not think they should be in that uncomfortable position. Their professional skills should be valued. And as for the whole SATS thing - don't get me started on that!!

I absolutely agree that it is important that parents and children make the decision about home education based on the right facts, including being clear about what state education has to offer that is positive. This is why I am suggesting that the OP gets up to the school and examines what is really going wrong for her DD. At the very least it puts her and DD on the same "side" and helps the DD to feel she is being taken seriously.

It may of course be that her DD is looking for a way to be bone idle!! - but I am sure OP can disabuse her of that idea by presenting her with a sample learning schedule from a home education website!

But 13 yo home ed kids do not stay at home 5 days a week. My son was going to classes 2 days a week at that age, then had another day he was out at groups etc. He was only with me 2 days a week if that.

I know "otherwise" means home education (amongst other possibilities such as PRUs and hospital schools). The significant word is "suitable". Local authorities have a duty to check that all children are registered in schools or are receiving suitable education by other means,

It may well be that your council isn't complying with its duties as regards home schooled children. That doesn't mean, as you claimed, that I was incorrect in saying that they have that duty.

Yes, I have. I was responding to the comment that 18% of people think it is fine to just leave a 13 year old at home 5 days a week. But my point was they are responding to the idea of home education rather that 'leaving your child at home'. After all that was what OP suggested - home education. Yes, we have lots of resources and my DC gets himself there himself. People that don't home educate would have no idea, though.

Seeing as you can't spell 'a lot' correctly it's probably best you're not her teacher 🤓