Is this racist?

[ToastedWaffle]

Okay.... so my ex was over at my house tonight to see our kids (he often does this).

Eldest DC was brushing their teeth whilst the same time trying to ask my ex a question.

Because you couldn't make out the words DC was saying with the toothbrush in their mouth, ex then proceeds to imitate the 'sound' saying something like "wah sah wah ha insert random sound here Are you Chinese or something?"

I've just had my arse handed to me by my ex for pointing out it was casually racist and could he not say things like that.

He has kicked up a massive stink which involved shouting, swearing, in which I asked him to leave. Still, the kids overheard him as he was being deliberately loud in shouting at me.

I'm sat here confused as hell.

IE. my white privilege

You were not talking about you, but the poster's and you know it!

I thought it was obvious who this poster was talking about.

Again, you either lack reading comprehension or you are being deliberate in twisting who said what, and what was conveyed (my ex does this and it is infuriating). I feel like you could actually be him.

They even tried to turn that round earlier "oh you're saying I'm racist like your racist ex" when what you were clearly saying was that the style of argument was familiar.

It's an argument style I've had to endure a lot of unfortunately. No matter how clear you are, the truth gets spun into something it isn't, no matter the topic. In short, pure gaslighting.

@vivainsomnia you’re embarrassing yourself and it’s so cringey that you can’t see how embarrassing you are. You don’t think it’s offensive to make fun of East Asian people but you’re super super triggered at the term “white privilege”? You’re not East Asian so you don’t have any right to say what is and isn’t racist.

Please shut up. You’re like that cringey drunk uncle who continues dances on the dance floor long after people have grown bored and left. OP’s ex is racist. End of.

It’s also bewildering to see someone claim that it’s not racist as some “not white” posters have said they don’t think it’s racist. What about the East Asian posters who’ve said they do find it racist, and talked about how hard they found it when they were a child? The parents of East Asian/mixed race children who have said how much it affects their children? I wrote above how my son said he wanted to die because of the bullying he faced because of his race. Not a single comment on that from the “it’s not racist” posters.

Why do those opinions and experiences not count to certain posters?

Some Chinese posters have said they did not consider it racist, and others have said they did. So opinion was divided within the Chinese posters themselves. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with any nonChinese person having an opinion either way on the OPs specific situation because all the Chinese posters opinions DO count.

I love it when white people argue with eachother about what is and isn't racist. It's fun isn't it.

Some Chinese posters have said they did not consider it racist, and others have said they did. So opinion was divided within the Chinese posters themselves. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with any nonChinese person having an opinion either way on the OPs specific situation because all the Chinese posters opinions DO count.

When white people say the mocking of Chinese words doesn't bother me but the shouting does (as many have said upthread), it's inflammatory to ethnic minorities because you are equating yourself (the majority in the UK), with minorities who have endured racism in the UK. You are not the arbiter of what bothers minorities in the UK.

No it's not, would you be so upset if he asked if he was speaking Double Dutch!
You are the one with the issue, he was surely referring to being incoherent, as in speaking a foreign language not normally spoken in your family!

It can only be inflammatory to the Chinese posters who have the opinion it is racist. But simultaneously, it’s agreeing with the Chinese posters who have the opinion it is not racist. So an opinion it is racist from a nonChinese person could equally be considered inflammatory to the Chinese posters of the opinion it is not racist. No matter which side you pick, there will be a Chinese poster who has the opposite opinion.

NonChinese are all in same boat here, no other ethnic minority has a right to tell a Chinese poster what their opinion should be or that it is wrong.

One person cannot represent the entire Chinese ethnicity (which actually contains many ethnicities within itself). All voices from the Chinese ethnicity count equally.

Its not at all surprising that the Chinese posters did not all agree. To think they would all agree (and with you), is a bit naive and slightly arrogant. No ethnic group is a monolith, surely you know that?

When white people say the mocking of Chinese words doesn't bother me but the shouting does

There was disagreement as to whether what happened was imitation or mocking. We do know actual Chinese words were used, not animal noises as some posters speculated. There was not an established consensus that what happened was indeed mocking.

@Discovereads If that’s really the case, why are certain posters who don’t think it’s racist only very vocal about it not being racist because of those divided opinions? Why are they only taking one side? Why aren’t they saying “well, I don’t really get it but if some people are saying it’s racist and some aren’t, maybe I should have a more nuanced view too.”?

It’s almost like the fact it’s divided completely negates the opinion they don’t want to hear, and counter arguments like the stress and depression those actions cause just get ignored. Why? Is it guilt at the realisation that the way they’ve behaved around their children and what they have/haven’t taught them might have caused harm in the real world?

Mandarin is a tonal language so how did you get “actual Chinese words” through syllables typed on a screen?

(“Chinese” isn’t a language btw.)

Why does anyone end up on one side or another? Because they have their own opinions. I haven’t seen the “not racist” side any more vocal than the “is racist” side, except for when there was a bit of “youre a racist if you think x” going on.

Im not sure what youre suggesting by “more nuanced view”? I think people have read the thread or not and posted an answer to the OPs question. There’s no way to tell who “doesn’t get it” versus those with a “nuanced view”. The OPs question of is it or isn’t it, plus the voting system left no room for third or fourth options.

From my view much of the counter arguments used false equivalencies to argue their point. It was always a tale of racism or hate crimes or like you, the bullying in school, which really are not comparable. And there’s not really evidence that the OPs situation would create a future racist bully. So I don’t think there is any guilt really about how posters own children are being raised. And if you’re implying that posters who think this wasn’t racist are raising racist children, that’s a bit of an insulting stretch.

Some Chinese posters have said they did not consider it racist, and others have said they did. So opinion was divided within the Chinese posters themselves. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with any nonChinese person having an opinion either way on the OPs specific situation because all the Chinese posters opinions DO count.

Hang on, so if some people say it's ok, it's ok? If someone find it racist, it's racist. It really doesn't matter what others think. Same for all the other harassment type of incident. If someone felt uncomfortable and offended about something, then it's not right. It really doesn't matter if others don't find it uncomfortable. Only thing that matters is that someone felt offended.

By the way, I am East Asian, and like others, I've experienced many racist incident, as well as my mixed race dc.

Syllables are the transcription of pronunciation in the English alphabet. They did transcribe into words, and not just for me but another poster who was Chinese. I don’t see why I need to repeat myself here.

That’s only true about something that happens to you. It’s not true that for something that did not happen to you and you did not witness.

It’s absolutely not true that random internet persons hearing it third hand and thinking it’s racist, therefore makes it racist.

From the OP at the top of every page:

imitate the 'sound' saying something like "wah sah wah ha insert random sound here"
It was only ever intended as an impressionistic representation of the kind of sounds he was making. He probably didn't literally say "wah sah wah ha". Why are you banging this drum for so long? It's irrelevant.

Well, it’s an insulting stretch that I didn’t make at all, isn’t it. What’s the point of putting words in my mouth? I’ve clearly got more than enough already.

Compounded by the fact that I’m going to have to (for a third time!) explain how perpetuating stereotypes at home leads to problems outside the home.

I can tell from your comment that you didn’t read my previous posts properly as I didn’t say children would become racist bullies. I clearly explained how kids can often innocently, not at all maliciously, copy what they hear at home and end up accidentally saying something racist or offensive. I mean, I’ve worked in schools. Kids do that a lot. They say things they’ve heard from friends or at home and are really embarrassed to be corrected and told what it actually means or that it’s rude. Parents can’t catch everything, but I think they’d want to help their kids avoid shit situations like that as much as possible.

Also none of your post explains why hearing that some East Asian posters feel it’s not racist makes you believe it’s not racist, but hearing other East Asian posters say it is racist does nothing to change your mind. That’s what I mean about nuance. I’m not talking about other posters, I’m talking about you.

50% say it’s racist. 50% say it’s not. You 100% believe it’s not racist based on one 50% and ignore the other 50%. That’s what doesn’t make sense to me. But hey as you said, everyone has their own opinions and that’s yours in all its confusing glory.

Both of my posts there to @Discovereads obviously. Too busy wondering where the hell people think casual racism comes from if not from experiences like this, it doesn’t spring fully formed from a hedgerow and possess people without warning baby Jesus give me strength to tag people properly.

Which Chinese person said it wasn't racist?
Two said they weren't offended (I was one of them).
And the reason I wasn't offended is because (as another Chinese person said, it is water off a duck's back now).
Not being offended is not the same as saying that the comment wasn't racist.

"There was disagreement as to whether what happened was imitation or mocking. We do know actual Chinese words were used, not animal noises as some posters speculated"
-@Discovereads

We also know that the OP's ex doesn't speak Chinese (Mandarin, Cantonese or any other dialect). He wasn't imitating Chinese words as he didn't know any and presumably neither did the OP's child (not that there is anything wrong with not knowing any Chinese words, of course)
But the fact that he may have stumbled on actual words is purely accidental (and also irrelevant because he wasn't trying to say anything in Chinese anyway) If you're trying to say he wasn't mocking on that basis, you really are clutching at straws..

(Yes, I know "Chinese" isn't an actual language)

What's "forcibly racist"?

Are you trying to say that just because a Chinese/Black/Indian/etc person wasn't there to be physically hear racist ramblings, then it's okay?

By this logic, if you can find one Black person that doesn't have a problem with the N word, then it suddenly it would become non-racist and everyone would be okay to use it.
Same goes if you can find one Black person who doesn't find Black-face offensive, that means that "commedians" could do black-face and it wouldn't be racist.

This is eye-opening. Is this the mental gymnastics that people go through to justify perpetuating everyday racism?

@RaiseTheBar I already said to that poster that I know two black people that don't find n* offensive. I was told I'm overreaching.