Is this racist?

[ToastedWaffle]

Okay.... so my ex was over at my house tonight to see our kids (he often does this).

Eldest DC was brushing their teeth whilst the same time trying to ask my ex a question.

Because you couldn't make out the words DC was saying with the toothbrush in their mouth, ex then proceeds to imitate the 'sound' saying something like "wah sah wah ha insert random sound here Are you Chinese or something?"

I've just had my arse handed to me by my ex for pointing out it was casually racist and could he not say things like that.

He has kicked up a massive stink which involved shouting, swearing, in which I asked him to leave. Still, the kids overheard him as he was being deliberately loud in shouting at me.

I'm sat here confused as hell.

Do you mean in a work context, or out and about on the streets, or politically?

I second that, very well said @RaiseTheBar

Agree

I'm Chinese. Personally, I feel it's fine for white middle-class privileged women to speak out against racism.
To be honest, I haven't given it much thought, though.

What's less fine is "white middle class privileged women" deciding what isn't racist and insisting that everyone else is virtue signalling or overreacting. That's way more patronising.

And what's not fine at all, and even more patronising is "white middle class privileged women" telling a Chinese/Black/Indian/etc what is or isn't racist and that they're overreacting or "woke" or a hundred other ways to deny the racism.

Amen! Totally agree, although someone will be here in a minute to tell you they're working class or you're wrong.

I've come to the conclusion that the usual suspects on this thread will argue till the cows come home. I went to watch the football at page 15 and they're still at it 😂.

Meh. I wouldnt consider it racism.
Him screaming is wrong though

Surely this must end up.in classics. Such a hoot. Especially for those of us who e experienced racism. 😡

Meh. I wouldnt consider it racism.
Him screaming is wrong though
wrong.
try again.

@Indicatrice - does it matter? Surely you're either supportive, or your not?

Or do you think "they've taken it too far", because now it's finally getting pretty difficult to ignore, and they should just be grateful to have got this far, and stay in their lane?

I've shut down racist larks at a bbq, and now we don't get invited to dh's friends anymore. I'm just SO rude! Apparently.

I've worked on election campaigns as a volunteer and got someone asking me what's it got to do with me by a white constituent, when I was supporting a Labour candidate who happened to be a POC (so that's on the street and politics - full house there!).

I'm not sure if your interest is for anecdotes or theory. Problem is, I'm very bad at keeping my mouth shut, so my theory ends up being practice.

What I don't want, is to imply that "these poor people need my help". More that i'd like to do whatever is helpful. These days I'm mostly alienating my very wealthy/ middle aged acquaintances by not letting things lie. It can be racism, sexism, most of the isms. It's amazing what crap people come out with when they think you're one of them.

Thanks to others who replied, I think I misunderstood the first post. It actually meant patronising middle class racists saying something's not racist. Not white middle class people agreeing it's racist, and trying to shout down the minimisers

I’d compare that to when women are like “I’m not like other girls” and laugh at misogyny. Or people saying “I can say that because my friend is black.” I’m British Chinese and the racism starts with children mocking the Chinese language (as though we’re uncivilised), then the eye pulling, then the explicit racist phrases and words, and then the physical abuse.

I applaud OP for telling her dc that racism is not ok. It’s shocking (but not surprising) that so many people in this thread think racism against East Asians is ok.

White privilege, get off your high horse, spreading hatred and divide
OP, you don't think the term has been used as an insult on this forum? I only had to go one page back and found this and I know there were more earlier.

It's all good to strongly believe in a cause and accusing others of being blind but you have to be honest and open-minded. Its easy to not see what you don't want to see.

These days I'm mostly alienating my very wealthy/ middle aged acquaintances by not letting things lie
And yet these are the ones who would need 'educating' as it's been called here. Your approach is not working.

Anger, insults, accusations, undermining, is really not the way to get people to listen. It has the exact opposite effect.

@stopthepain

I'm not sure if you read my experience at Center Parcs earlier but I had a kid making these stupid garbled Chinese sounds while his father stood right next to him. He did nothing at all.

If people can't equate a father in a bathroom, actively making the same garbled BS with my experience, it's not really worth engaging. Many people here can, irrespective of their skin colour, but a small minority will continue to deny as it's their purpose to argue the toss.

It all starts with parents doing seemingly 'innocent' things like this and kids then learn that it's ok to make stupid noises. Obviously because it's not racist 🤦 it's then ok for that same father to just stand there, while their kid racially abuses some random Chinese guy at a holiday resort.

That poster was talking to me, someone who does use the term in a non derogatory way.

They used it to insult in a sentence insulting someone who uses the term (me)... so it's clearly not an example of people who believe in the concept of white privilege using it as an insult to white people.

You'll need to try to find another example of 'white privileged ' being used as an insult towards white people / being used in a derogatory way to white people on this thread, which is how you claim the phrase is only ever used...

This is hilarious 😂

That poster was insulting those who believe white privilege exists.

Yet more proof that those who refuse to acknowledge racism (I.e. you) just don’t even bother reading.

You'll need to try to find another example of 'white privileged ' being used as an insult towards white people / being used in a derogatory way to white people on this thread, which is how you claim the phrase is only ever used...
I should have known even that would be argued. I'm not going to go back 21 pages. It is regularly used on MN as an insult to white people. Mind you, that's the only place I've ever heard it and it is because it is used for that purpose mainly that I, like many, misunderstood what it truly means.

You might not use it in that context, but many many do.

So you claim white privilege is 'only ever' used to insult white people, including on this thread.

Then you're asked to provide an example.

The example you provide is in fact someone using the term in a post insulting a person who uses the term in a non derogatory way (which you concede is true).

Then when confronted with the fact you got it so wrong... you now can't be arsed to back up your false statement. Got it.

OP, you don't think the term has been used as an insult on this forum? I only had to go one page back and found this and I know there were more earlier.

You're not the sharpest tool in the box are you?

I should have known even that would be argued. I'm not going to go back 21 pages. It is regularly used on MN as an insult to white people

You find the concept of it insulting to you, for some reason, therefore it sounds like an insult. It is used to pull people up on a train of thought. It is not in itself an insult.

You just don't like having your own intentions or perceptions questioned

I think that "white privilege"is a bit like "toxic masculinity". Both are pithy terms which are very useful for identifying a particular type of societal poison. They're both very helpful terms to use for people on the pointy end of things (and both, I think, coined by people on that pointy end?), and can, if understood properly, be helpful to people in the groups being centred by the term too (white people, men). But both terms have the potential to be misunderstood (or deliberately misunderstood) as an insult, and can provoke a defensive response. It would be better if white people and men could push past that instinctive defensiveness to understand what the terms are intended to mean, but these are groups that are not used to being challenged in this way.

I had a very similar discussion to this
"white privilege" one with my male DP about "toxic masculinity", and we agreed that while the intended meaning of something like "a societal idea of what constitutes masculinity that does harm to both women and men" is fine, what comes across to a bloke who hasn't heard the term before can be something like "men are toxic, masculinity is bad, I'm being criticised for something I can't help".

I tend not to use "toxic masculinity" around men who aren't already versed in the non-accusatory meaning of it because starting out by getting people's backs up is a difficult place to move on from towards a productive discussion. However, those using the term "white privilege" may well have different strategies in mind, or not feel like treating white people with kid gloves in this way all the time, or whatever, which I can understand.

@Lunar27 I didn’t see your Centre Parcs story but that’s horrible, but not surprising. Children are racist and abusive because their parents are their “role models.”

You've completely misinterpreted that quote. It was meant for someone else and was a dig at how white privilege isn't a thing.

I wonder how much avlack of understanding is down to a general lack of comprehension, both written and verbal. Genuinely, not being goady.

Ok, so I was a bit fast and picked the wrong quote and indeed, I'm not prepared to waste 1/2 h or more to troll back to find a real example. It doesn't take away the fact that indeed 'white privilege' is very often - and no, not always- used as an insult.

You're not the sharpest tool in the box are you?
It's responses like this that totally undermine your views. How do you expect people to take your views seriously when all you can do is through insults.

It does exactly the opposite. It makes you come across as aggressive, self-rightful and inconsiderate. Not the type of person I care to listen to and believe.

I wonder how much avlack of understanding is down to a general lack of comprehension, both written and verbal. Genuinely, not being goady
Believe ne, I wish I'd read it more carefully. Certainly wrong choice, but the above poster also believes it is often used as an insult and they are not the only one because it IS often thrown as an insult to belittle someone's view.

I read that it is actually illegal for a teacher to use that term as a fact in their teaching. I wonder why if it indeed only ever used as described here ...because it isn't and indeed isn't an appropriate educational tool. So much for telling strangers to educate themselves!

The irony here is that people who get offended by the term 'white privilege' are the very same people who tell people like me not to go so offended over a racist joke.

"God people are so easily offended these days. They really should lighten up!"

Also: "White privilege is a term used to belittle white people, it's so insulted and I'm affronted".

You couldnt make this up. I feel almost gaslighted. Again my ex uses these techniques and I'm not sure its purposeful or he genuinely lacks comprehension and your arguments @vivainsomnia sound like the same logic. Either way, it's not great.

To add a further point, considering my family on my fathers side are white, I have no vested interest in being racist either intentionally or non intentionally to white people, since surely that would only mean being racist towards myself. I'm half white after all.

To add to that point, I have no interest in being racist at all. I have a vested interest in making people aware of when they are being though.