DS Bullied By Child with SEN

[ellie21]

My son who is at a mainstream Primary School is being bullied by another child who is undergoing assessment for ADD.
Initially this was low level bullying ( name calling etc) but has developed into threats of violence. In the last two weeks he has been physically assaulted three times by this child. The school have confirmed that this is one sided and is happening to other students too.
I have been into school a number of times to talk to staff and whereas they are sympathetic they say they have a duty of care to the child with SEN as he is struggling to cope at school.
AIBU to think that this is separate issue? I am absolutely furious my child is being hurt.

@blinkybilll great response 🤗

The school is clearly failing all the children especially the child with SEND. There is clearly an unmet need there.
It is all very easy saying remove the SEND child but often this child has nowhere to go as there are not enough specialist school places. Many have no education for years.
The school needs to either provide more support for SEND child or the LA needs to move SEND child to a school thst can meet his needs.
Sorry your child is being bullied OP. It is not nice. My autistic ds who suffers with anxuety was definitely bullied at times not physically but also had unmet needs so ended up out if school at year 9 and had a year of pretty much no education before finally getting an hour a week tuition. Now on 4 hours. It is not enough but the service can provide no more as over stretched with children who should be in specialist schools but there are no places. It is a mess.

I think this thread makes it so clear that inclusion just doesnt work. Certainly not without lots of funding and resources.
Everyone is being shortchanged. All kids should be safe at school. How the hell are disabled kids going to progress and meet their potential while in this environment. How the hell are the more able kids going to meet theirs if the school cant even keep them safe from other pupils who are volatile.

Its all very well telling everyone to change schools.
The process of getting adequate school support and school places that meet their needs needs to be easier. Its clearly not just an issue for parents of SEN kids to fight for better services because it affects everyone. Its an impossible situation at the moment. So many services have been cut. My eldest is in his 20s now and SEN and MH provision has always been hard to get for children, but its now diabolical and dangerous.
Please try not to just point fingers at other parents at how they should or shouldnt handle it, because honestly the whole education system right now is a shitshow and SEN provision is one area that this is clearer than anywhere.
You (nt parents) might look at sen kids and think they get it all, but it couldnt be further from the truth.

Some kids should be removed from school and placed in a special needs school. Like the kid of a poster on fhe first page.
Just because a kid is special needs (like the kid op mentioned) doesn't mean he should be allowed to get away with it.
Add is no excuse for being violent. Not even an explanation for it. This is just a kid with add that probably is being raised by "oh but he has add. He can't help it" nonsense.

"You (nt parents) might look at sen kids and think they get it all, but it couldnt be further from the truth."

I know a child with autism and a learning disability who was permanently excluded aged 6 because the mainstream school they were attending couldn't meet need and there were no spaces in special schools or alternative provisions. They were out of school for nearly a year until a week before tribunal the LA magically found the child a place in one of their own schools ( to avoid having to pay 100k a year at a specialist independent). There are many others in this position. And people think disabled children get it all.

That isnt how it works.
Its so far removed from how it works its unreal.
Do other parents really think that we can just ask for a place at a SEN school and then they get a place??

Also, how is that related to "getting away with it"
Going to a SEN school isnt a punishment for naughty kids. Lots of SEN schools wont take children with behaavioural difficulties either. Most SEN schools wont take children who have normal academic levels either.
The education authority will berate a school for trying to get EHCPs for a child, so they are also like hens teeth now, and an ehcp doesnt mean they would get a SEN placement, but without one its impossible.
To get adequate provision for a SEN child, you pretty much have to allow mainstream to destroy them first, and then have a massive papertrail proving this.
Then they will do everything to just make the mainstream school do more, even when its clearly the environment thats the issue.

Im not surprised their is hostility and defensiveness from both sides, but i think we need to be pointing the fingers at the right people

"Add is no excuse for being violent. Not even an explanation for it. This is just a kid with add that probably is being raised by "oh but he has add. He can't help it" nonsense."

And your qualifications to make this statement are? Let me guess - none.

Special schools are not institutions to remove children to. Your dislike of children with disabilities (based on the fear of ever having one yourself and knowing you are not up to it) is clear.

@Spikeyball so very true. My child is autistic but due to masking was not diagnosed until the wheel had truly fallen off. By then he had missed a years education and in the remaining two years probably had an average of two hours education a week. He is extremely bright and will probably pass 5 GCSEs but he won't be able to fo the A Levels he wants because he won't have the GCSES. As it is he will he wilk be a year behind. He was never violent in school but many are through no fault of their own or the parents.He was bullied though for being different.
Even the CAMHS lady said when we finally got help that he will never return to school as there are not enough places especially for those without a learning disability
The system is broken.

Have you actually read the thread and people's actual experience,or are you just making stuff up ?
My son has always gone to a special school,because he has severe autism and learning disabilities, his needs can be met within my lea provision ,which is better than most tbf,.
However for children wth Sen who are more academically able,where do they go ?
There are schools who might meet their needs but they will be a private provision and cost the LEA ££££,s and is often a fight for parents to secure their child a place

I don't think anybody on this thread who is advocating for children with SEN has said they should 'get away' with anything.

If a child has been violent and physically harmed another child there should be appropriate consequences for their level of understanding of what they have done. Whether that's some days exclusion, lost play times, a visit to the head etc I don't know. As a parent I would do whatever was necessary at home too to help them understand that they acted wrong.

A child with SEN that has lashed out because they are overwhelmed, over stimulated or have possibly been intentionally or unintentionally wound up by another child is different to a child that doesn't have any SEN and has just lashed out for whatever reason. Children prone to this behaviour are being failed by the system if they don't have adequate supervision in school, and therefore the rest of the class are being failed too.

The result is the same whoever the child, an innocent child has been hurt in the process, but the child needs to be dealt with in a way that they understand.

My child is autistic, but has never been violent to anybody. During a meltdown he is more likely to harm himself or just scream until he is blue in the face. If he suddenly reacted in a way that is out of character for him and he hurt another child, i wouldn't expect him to be reprimanded in the same way as a NT child, but I certainly wouldn't brush it under the carpet and do nothing.

My child is the gentlest, kindest soul. They are thoughtful, quiet and tries so hard in school. They do have tricky days and do need a high level of support, but causes nobody else any harm and doesn't take away anything from anybody else. That's not to say as they get older they won't change and won't start to react to sensory overloads in other ways, but I would expect them to be receiving the right level of support at all times. I am just pointing out that many children with SEN are not violent but may suddenly lash out in a moment when they don't know what else to do, and that doesn't mean they should be home schooled or sent away elsewhere.

Many of the sweeping statements on this thread are so insulting and unpleasant. Some I recall are referring to children, actual children, as 'special needs' and saying things like they are 'over diagnosed' 'validated after being violent' and god knows what other absolute garbage.

Everyone's priority is their own child and rightly so, but it's everyone's job to be pushing for better in the education system.

SEND is massively underfunded and has been in crisis for years. This is the reason why so many children are not getting what they should be in schools, not because of 'shit parents' who 'coo' over their children and think they can do no wrong.

👏🏻

I'm glad the school has been responsive, OP

I see a lot of "needs to be in a SEN School" comments. It's worth taking a little time to read the Green Paper on SEND reforms. There is a massive push towards more SEN DC in mainstreams, and it appears that parents may even lose the right to fight for any school (as you currently can via tribunal), and instead the LA will control what choice via a list. And massively increasing the difficult to appeal as there will be mandatory mediation, possibly twice(!). A particular target is independent SEN schools which they say are poor value for money. It is, generally speaking, those schools that cater for the academically able/challenging behaviours.

The plan seems to be having very large multi-academy trusts to support each other.

I'm saying this through the lens of someone who went to tribunal to get her child into an independent special, but the green paper is there for all to read. My child is definitely one that isn't wanted in mainstream. I've long made my peace with that, but if these changes go through, I will be powerless when it comes to his secondary education and I will not Electively Home Educate him for the greater good.

Mumsnet have a Q&A with Will Quince, so it's an opportune time to feedback.

Some kids should be removed from school and placed in a special needs school. Like the kid of a poster on fhe first page.
Just because a kid is special needs (like the kid op mentioned) doesn't mean he should be allowed to get away with it.
Add is no excuse for being violent. Not even an explanation for it. This is just a kid with add that probably is being raised by "oh but he has add. He can't help it" nonsense.

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"Just because a kid is special needs"

No child 'is special needs'

Special educational needs are a means of providing education to a student in a way that provides accommodation for their disability or differences.

"probably is being raised by "oh but he has add. He can't help it" nonsense."

That's what you think. The stark reality of raising a child with a disability or condition that affects their life education is very different.

The disdain for vulnerable and disabled children on this thread is unbelievable.

I'm sad to see that the problems I experienced in school seem to have gotten no better in two decades. I once sat in the headmaster's office holding a wad of tissues to my bloody nose whilst he waffled on about the importance of the school's commitment to diversity and the need to be tolerant to those who were different. The kid who punched me got to enjoy the lessons I was missing. Over my time at primary, this kid attacked countless kids - some of whom had to be hospitalised. Most of them were girls, who were all being told that they needed to be understanding of his difficulties. I dread to think what lessons have been learned there for them. For me, it took years for me to begin to understand that I had some worth as an individual and was entitled to not be hit and terrified on a daily basis.

The parents of the boy were aware but their view was that they needed a break from him at home so he had to be in school. Understandable, but something doesn't sit right about the only two people who are responsible for a child being able to say that they can't cope with him, and expecting small children who have no responsibility whatsoever for him to do it instead.

Of course the answer is proper funding, but you can hardly blame people for being upset when kids are getting assaulted and being told to turn the other cheek to whoever is assaulting them. Everyone's tolerance has a limit, and schools are frequently far, far too keen to turn a blind eye to what's going on for fear of being sued for disability discrimination.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/sponsored_qas/4538201-do-you-have-questions-on-the-special-educational-needs-and-disability-send-review-ask-minister-for-children-and-families-will-quince-mp

"and schools are frequently far, far too keen to turn a blind eye to what's going on for fear of being sued for disability discrimination."

Schools would only lose a disability discrimination case if they have broken the law so if they are doing what they should be doing they have no need to worry about it.

Exactly this. It’s absolutely disgusting that children are being expected to put up with violent or abusive attacks. It is not fair and I’d be kicking up a huge fuss if it were my DC. Any child who attacks others, SEN or not, should not be allowed in a setting with other children until they learn to control themselves and not hurt others.

Are you proposing changing the law so only children with no additional needs have a right to an education?

"Any child who attacks others, SEN or not, should not be allowed in a setting with other children until they learn to control themselves and not hurt others."

So what happens to them. Do you expect them to magically make themselves not disabled. Are you proposing all special schools shut.

Sounds like it doesn't it. Which is bizarre when the very obvious solution would be to fight for better funding and suitable provision for all children, this is also not cruel, exclusionary or ignorant which is a plus.

From what I've seen, losing a disability discrimination case over PEx a child doesn't makes an awful lot of difference to schools.

Really glad the meeting was positive.

however, please make sure you send an email, recapping what the head said regarding how they will safeguard your son in future. and their acknowledgement that his need to be safeguarded is not negotiable nor is it dependant on any other circumstances.

also put in the previous injuries, were as a result of failures in safeguarding

finally, in your OP you said “whereas staff are sympathetic they say they have a duty of care to the child with SEN as he is struggling to cope at school”. This is a red flag, because it implies the staff are clueless if they think that duty of care means they have a lesser duty of care to other children. This needs to be addressed, as they clearly ignoring your child’s right not to be attacked and as a result, they are being prejudiced towards him.

hoping all will go well for you, but in case it doesn’t, you need a paper trail.

@Overthebow

Any child who attacks others, SEN or not, should not be allowed in a setting with other children until they learn to control themselves and not hurt others

Wow. Just wow. These children can't just learn to control themselves when there needs aren't being met.
Would you take someone's wheelchair away and say they should just learn to walk?

I honestly think they would.

This thread has been a real eye opener at how many disablist people there are out there.