Distraught and need advice regarding 9yo DD

[DistraughtMother]

Hi, I don’t know where to start really and posting here for traffic. I can’t even believe I am writing this, I cannot stop crying and can’t think straight so I need some wise mn’s to help me please.
Firstly I will start that I have been stupid and irresponsible and too trusting to let DD have a phone, it was purely to stay in contact with friends on WhatsApp and nothing else.. and here is why you don’t give 9 year olds a phone😞
Tonight I was taking funny photos on DDs phone with her younger sibling, and came to delete some. When doing so it stated “moved to recycle bin”, clicked around and found the recycle bin. In here is a video of her (9 year old) (male) friend, who has videod himself talking to the camera asking DD to show her private parts, the camera has then moved downwards towards his trousers and I deleted it permantly, was not watching anymore!
My DD, my 9 yo daughter, has videod her privates and sent it too him. She was up in her room this evening when I saw this, I went in and calmly explained what I had seen, and tried to discuss boundaries and how serious and inappropriate it is what these 2 have done. I told her how much I loved her and that I was worried for her, she kept telling me she didn’t want to do it but she felt like she had to.
I don’t know where to go from here. I don’t feel I explained It well enough, I tried knocking at the boys mums house but all curtains were shut and no answer. DD got really emotional when I said I’d need to speak to the school as I don’t want them anywhere near each other, she cried and begged me not to tell anyone, but I have to don’t I? School can alert appropriate authorities who can talk/explain/find out things in a more child/sensitive manner. I can’t just brush this under the carpet and pretend it never happened. I’m worried about approaching the boys mum on the school run in the morning as she’s known for ‘well it wasn’t my child’s fault, they are not to blame’ etc. Please be kind, my tummy is doing somersaults and my throat hurts from so much crying.

@Clangyleg Yes I don’t know what this man went on to do though to my knowledge the police never caught him for this particular offence and I remember them patrolling the streets for days afterwards. But I do know that I didn’t personally benefit from reporting it. Something that began as fairly hilarious to me and my friend became a trauma for us because someone told us we “must” report it and we did and the police got involved. I regret listening to that person! They were not thinking about what was best for me! I would always think twice about what’s best for me personally now but obviously I was too young then to think about it that way and just did what I was told.

Slight derail, sorry OP.

Most parents will never be okay with the idea of their children seeing porn, so this was a daft comment for the trainer to have made. I wouldn't have been happy with dd seeing porn, especially unwanted and un-searched for, at any age. Does this mean she shouldn't have had access to a phone or the internet until she was a grown adult?

I do despair of some of the so-called online safety training put into schools. This kind of OTT comment really doesn't help with managing appropriate use of technology by children.

I have done the CEOP Ambassador training and updates and coordinate the online safety in my school. That kind of approach is not recommended nor is it good practise when it comes to online safety training.

OP - please tell your child's school, but don't approach the boy's mum yourself. Let your DD know you are telling school and that you can't keep it a secret.

Schools have safeguarding leads and pathways, and are very much appropriate agencies to speak to in such cases.

I've not read the whole thread just first page and you've had good advice about contacting NSPCC, school etc. Remember this boy is also 9 and just as vulnerable as your daughter - both children need to be protected.

Whatsapp has an age minimum of 16 within the EU and with very good reason. In the event you give your child a phone again, make sure you have appropriate controls (eg family link), no access to WhatsApp, tiktok, Facebook etc or other social media, and you check it regularly. It's really not about how.you are raising or teaching her - she's simply not old enough to have access to social media or group chat services.

I was asked by a boy I was friends with at age 9 or 10 and that was 30 years ago. I don't think he was being abused just curious and fortunately I had no problem telling him no and threatening to tell my mum. As you say it's not unusual and has always happened.

However what's different now is SM. You say the video is deleted but only the video he made is deleted - the boy still has hers. He basically has child porn and could put it up/out anywhere. That is why school, safeguarding and the police need to be involved, to get hold of it so it doesn't end up on SM. This is child porn, there is no such thing as an 'over the top' reaction IMO when it comes to child porn.

Don't beat yourself up OP, imo there's a fine line between letting children grow up relatively uninhibited and making them anxious about showing anything above the knee. I'm sure she'll understand after a chat about the "pants" rule.

I knew a little girl who used to let boys look at her foof in exchange for 10p. She's a fine upstanding vicar now!

OP, you have had some good advice here. I agree that it is a safeguarding matter, and that you should contact the police. It will raise red flags that the boy could be a victim himself if he thinks it is acceptable behaviour. I have had safeguarding training for volunteer work, and this would absolutely be reported if a child in our care came to us with this.

Hopefully it is all innocent and just 2 silly 9 year olds, but it does need to be stopped in its tracks and you need to know that the video is deleted.

You need to not make a huge fuss of it with your daughter as you do not want to give her a complex and give her issues for life, do not make her feel ashamed in any way, but you do need to discuss boundaries with her and that it is ok to not do something that she is not happy about. My DD is 14 but we have had the conversation about not sending photos/videos etc as once they are out there they can be sent to anyone.

You should NOT approach the boys parent. I would not contact the school and I would leave it all for the police to deal with.

The police have the power to remove the phone and see what else the boy has been up to, and they have the power to deal with the situation.

Regarding your DD having a phone, we were at a Little Mix concert last night and I was astounded to see girls of 7/8 waving smart phones around. I would never have let DD have one at that age, but kids seem to be getting phones younger and younger all the time.

You’re “broken”
You have sore throat and tummy ache “from crying so much”

op. You are the adult in this scenario. Her mother. I understand you are very upset, I would be very very disturbed myself. You need to control your response though. This reaction is going to be very distressing for your daughter to witness. And I know you’ll say you didn’t do this in front of her, but she’s 9 years old. Not 9 months old. She will have clocked her mother is absolutely beside herself and “broken”

I think it's really worrying that your daughter felt she had to do it even though she didn't want to.

What did she think would happen if she had refused?

Presumably you have informed your dd’s father? What’s his response. I hope he’s making you stop and consider how you are acting

I’m not surprised the OP is so distraught, given some of the sensationalist responses here.

This was two nine year olds. Messing. Inappropriately but that’s why kids need parents - to give them boundaries.

Please don’t panic and be upset OP. I’m an extremely strict parent but this would not overly upset me. It could have been a lot worse but you’re a good parent and you were checking her phone usage, quite rightly!

I would have very firm words about saying no and about photos on social media. That’s it! I would also respect her wishes not to inform anyone else, especially if her face was not shown. Otherwise she will not trust you to respect her confidences in future. Choose your battles. Calm down now…you’ve learned a valuable lesson…you’re better armed for the future 💐

@Thereisnolight

before one single person had posted, the OP was “distraught” and crying so much she’d made herself ill

what do you think the OP would have posted if she’d come across this thread and responded?

I completely get why you're upset Op - I would be too.
My almost 11 yo doesn't have a phone and I will reluctantly let her have one when she starts high school.

i would speak to the school however I think there are some hysterical responses on this thread. I'm 40+ I years old and remember a group of us playing "mummies and daddies" which involved writhing around on top of one another in a tent in someone's garden at around this age! Also a lot of interest in private parts etc. Its a normal part of curiosity about their changing bodies/hormones at this age and although it's upsetting to know our babies are becoming curious about stuff like this - it is also a normal part of growing up.

obviously the advent of mobile phones makes it seem more sinister with the possibility of photos/videos being recorded and possibly forwarded.

i do think the "phone 999" type comments are a bit silly though. Don't give her her phone back until she's in high school and speak to school about it - they will probably give some good advice and are trained in situations such as this (safeguarding). Try not to worry too much.

"obviously the advent of mobile phones makes it seem more sinister with the possibility of photos/videos being recorded and possibly forwarded"

I think that's the thing here.

Not a couple of kids messing about on the spur of the moment.

Op's daughter (as far as I can tell) not even in any proximity to him but still felt she had to do as he said/asked.

I think you have to tell the police because of the video on the phone? Possession of Child sexual abuse images is a crime and need to be reported even if they're in your possession innocently. You need to report both phones to police so they can seize them, delete all the images/video and check if they have been shared. Or If there are any adults involved who need to be prosecuted.

This isn't a case of two kids messing around.

The boy is engaging in predatory behaviour which he has learned from somewhere. The school needs to deal with this in a very thorough manner.

@DistraughtMother - you are right that some repairing of the relationship with your DD is needed. Try to present to her a calm and competent face right now, even if you're feeling shaky, angry, gobsmacked..

Sit DD down and try to get to the bottom of why she felt she had to go along with what this boy said. It may well be that there is no real failure on your part but that this boy is highly manipulative and devious. Unfortunately there are some practiced predators out there, and maybe your child just got very unlucky.

If DD has friends, I would very discreetly ask their mothers to check all of the girls' phones to see if this boy's number appears. Your DD might not be the only victim here.

I hope speaking to the school today helped to put your mind at ease, you won't be the first parent and you certainly won't be the last. The fact you are so upset shows how much of a good parent you actually are, you care. You are taking all the right steps, just need to work on getting your daughter to talk to you about this stuff before it happens as she heads into her teen years. That in itself is not a reflection of you either. My Mam is amazing, she's been my best friend since I was about 8. I love her to death, but I did something similar when I was 13 and didn't dare tell her, to this day she still doesn't know. It was more my fear of disappointing her and ruining our good relationship which stopped me, plus, as great as she was, she was not good with the sensitive topics at all. Maybe once a month or something have a girly day together, and remind her you will love her and support her with anything so long as she is honest with you. Thinking of you OP. Please be kind to yourself

As many young children do, they become curious about their own and others bodies.

When i was 7 or 8 a boy i knew who was year older than me cornered me behind a wall of a car garage and convinced me into the “i will show you mine, if you show me yours”. he thought it was funny. I had no interest in seeing anything but was people pleasing, i felt i had to after what he said and because he already showed his (not that i asked him to) i felt guilty and compelled to, so i pulled down my trousers and pants only for a couple seconds. After i felt it wasn’t something i should have done, only because i realised i didn’t want to but did it anyway. So i wouldn’t have ever done it again.

We thought nobody saw us, but a neighbour witnessed it and told my Dad.

Unlike you. My Dad dealt with it in the worst way possible, I was out playing later in the day with a big group of different kids. He stormed up and grabbed me in front of everyone, and screamed you want to show off your naked arse to people do you? And proceeded to pull down my trousers and smacked me repeatedly so hard on my bare bottom, his hand was so big and in his fury although he didn’t mean to, he also hit me hard around the front, and hit my pubic bone so hard i nearly puked, the pain was horrendous and lasted a long time. I was mortified and so embarrassed, so ashamed, and made to feel like i commit the worst crime ever, even though i didn’t even under what really happened or why. He didn’t explain why it was bad either. He just grounded me for a month. And looked at me with shame and anger in his eyes for the longest time, if he even looked at me at all.

A the time i was a total Daddy’s girl, and this broke my trust with him and no longer felt he was my safe big protector and hero. I didn’t talk to him or go to him for anything for the longest time. It really damaged me for years. This interaction also made my people pleasing ways worse, as i never wanted anyone but especially my Dad to feel that way and treat me like that ever again. It has done me a disservice into my adult life.

Adults tend to project and sexualise those innocent actions of children. We did not do anything sexual. Did not know about sex acts.

Thankfully there was no videos then, but more importantly parenting and help protecting children has come a very long way. Please be kind and forgive yourself. You are a loving Mum and are doing everything you can in the best way trying to put things right.

I seriously doubt this incident has done any lasting damage to either child. Providing the parents deal with it sensitively and kindly. As hard as it is, try not to look at it through adult eyes. Projecting anything sexual at that age is way off. If they were older i would worry. It’s a hard lesson learned but going forward you will i have no doubt educate your daughter and put things in place to protect her in the future.

@BensonStabler

I'm so sorry your father did that to you, I felt sick reading about a grown man hitting a little girl so hard and so intimately. Jesus Christ what an awful man

Oh my goodness - PP didn't say tha tthey should be comfortable with seeing porn! Their point was that children have access to things we don't know about ie tiktok.

OP, re your question - speak to the school.

There was no abuse.

You do need to tell the school. The boy may himself be the vistim of inappropriate behaviuor. and other little girls in his class and younger could be at risk from him.

These things are so much worse now because of technology. Back in 1969 myself and a delightful young chap called Alan showed each our bits under the table. Not our finest moment but no harm was done and our parents never even knew. However because of the phone and the potential for sharing or just keeping images I think this is way more serious than the innocence of 1969.

Don’t beat yourself up any more. This was done in the moment, the boy could have been using any number of tactics to get her to video herself.
You’ve told your daughter how serious it is, tell her you will sort it but you have to involve others. Call the police on 101 and they will start the ball rolling by getting the boy’s phone. You might well be helping him, maybe he’s left alone too much online. Who knows?
Keep talking to your daughter. I can imagine your shock, I have grandchildren similar age and I’m shocked at the amount of tech they can access.
I hope the police and school can give you plenty of support.

You've got a range of answers from childhood exploration to the most deeply sinister things possible. It could be any of them, and the boy in particular might be massively at risk. This must be a social care referral - via the police, school or direct to social care, whatever you feel most comfortable with, so that someone can attempt to establish what is happening in that boy's life. To do anything other than refer might be leaving this child (and others) at risk.