Distraught and need advice regarding 9yo DD

[DistraughtMother]

Hi, I don’t know where to start really and posting here for traffic. I can’t even believe I am writing this, I cannot stop crying and can’t think straight so I need some wise mn’s to help me please.
Firstly I will start that I have been stupid and irresponsible and too trusting to let DD have a phone, it was purely to stay in contact with friends on WhatsApp and nothing else.. and here is why you don’t give 9 year olds a phone😞
Tonight I was taking funny photos on DDs phone with her younger sibling, and came to delete some. When doing so it stated “moved to recycle bin”, clicked around and found the recycle bin. In here is a video of her (9 year old) (male) friend, who has videod himself talking to the camera asking DD to show her private parts, the camera has then moved downwards towards his trousers and I deleted it permantly, was not watching anymore!
My DD, my 9 yo daughter, has videod her privates and sent it too him. She was up in her room this evening when I saw this, I went in and calmly explained what I had seen, and tried to discuss boundaries and how serious and inappropriate it is what these 2 have done. I told her how much I loved her and that I was worried for her, she kept telling me she didn’t want to do it but she felt like she had to.
I don’t know where to go from here. I don’t feel I explained It well enough, I tried knocking at the boys mums house but all curtains were shut and no answer. DD got really emotional when I said I’d need to speak to the school as I don’t want them anywhere near each other, she cried and begged me not to tell anyone, but I have to don’t I? School can alert appropriate authorities who can talk/explain/find out things in a more child/sensitive manner. I can’t just brush this under the carpet and pretend it never happened. I’m worried about approaching the boys mum on the school run in the morning as she’s known for ‘well it wasn’t my child’s fault, they are not to blame’ etc. Please be kind, my tummy is doing somersaults and my throat hurts from so much crying.

I think the point is that once children have smartphones they will have access to porn. It’s not a case of being comfortable with them seeing it, but being aware of the fact they may well see it, as it is so rife.

Personally I think that smartphones should have a legal age limit of 16, smartphone content and social media has got out of hand and children are exposed to far too much now, not only that, smartphones are regularly used as bullying tools.

no child needs a smartphone, and re them keeping in contact with their friends and being left out if they’re not, if nobody had a smartphone under that age nobody is going to be left out.

it is NOT normal to be sending private videos like this at 9!! Op needs to tell the school and ensure her dd never touches a phone for a good few years.

Not every child immediately goes onto porn, but they do have easy access to it. No matter how tight you think parental control are. It's pretty much a given that they will watch it at some point, either through curiosity or someone has told them to search a specific term (blue waffle anyone?!)

I agree with this.
To get your DD involved with the police and SS over this seems detrimental to her wellbeing.

@HiCockalorum great post - especially after about catastrophising it may make things worse. I also remember showing my female friends my boys and giggling about the fact that when we will be grown up they’ll be hairy.

also worth pointing out that police and SS and always teams made up of brilliant concise and supportive people. You may well get people who want to point the finger at you, look for concerns that aren’t there etc. there can very much be a ‘one size fits all’ approach to these kind of things, which may not be beneficial to your DD. SS will likely want to do school visits etc with the children (including other children you may have) which is all very nice box-ticking for SS be abuse they’ll be looking at it from “these children may be sexually exposed to things” but can be very distressing and completely unnecessary for the children

*showing my female friends my bits, not boys. Bloody autocorrect

*Police and social services AREN’T always teams, that should say

Take a breath op, this might feel overwhelming right now, but your child has not been physically damaged or hurt, what has happened can be rectified (with no access to phones) and some maturity.

Personally I would attempt to sort this out with the other parent, and see if you can ensure all of the photos are deleted, and she is aware of what her child is doing. The reason I say this is because you stand much more chance of deletion via the other parent than with the police/SS. If you can approach her calmly and explain what has happened, not laying any blame as they are both so young then maybe it can be resolved between you without involving anyone else. The other child may simply be curious, and nothing more than that. Chalk it up to experience and ensure your dd does not have a phone for a few more years. This would be the least stressful outcome. That is what I would do, because the alternative is this:

By informing the school, who I have to warn you will alert SS as they have a duty to do so, and there will be an investigation covering both children, parents. This process is not for the faint hearted. So you are going to need to keep a very calm and level head whilst it takes place. It may mean other parents, children etc finding out, and I am sorry to say make the problem even bigger and more difficult for dd. It may follow her around for years, and at nine years old that is going to be potentially hard to deal with.

I am saying this because I think it is important for you to know the facts, and the reality of your decisions. Once reported you will no longer have control of what happens, and at the moment, you do have the chance to get the photos deleted, speak to the parent and contain this issue.

SS are not likely to do very much/if anything unless there are serious concerns. Ditto police unless there has been adult involvement. The outcome of these agencies being involved could have a very negative impact on your dd.

This advice is only because the child in question is 9, obviously any older or an adult this would be a whole different story.

Alot of people say call the police or SS inform the school maybe have more confidence in what can be done (not much, they are both young children) and what can be achieved by informing them.

If I was your DD I would think I might end up quite traumatized at the humiliation of discussing and showing the police and school (possibly the HT, her teacher, the guidance teacher ) photos of my private parts. Poor girl.
How could she look her teacher in the eye??

Imv just suggesting that you might need to discuss it with someone outwith the family would be enough to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Have you thought this through.

Schools have no powers to deal with what has happened.

It's not about powers. It's about the peoples who spend seven hours a day with those dc knowing what's happening and it's about education as online safety is taught in schools and it's about safeguarding.

You've two issues OP.

Who has that video now.
And
Your daughter. Why she did it and why she didn't talk to you when she got the message in the first place.

I think you have done well so far in how you initially talked to her and it's probably a good thing the other parents didn't answer the door. I wouldn't approach her on the school run like you said in your OP. You are doing the right thing by going to the school.

It's a safeguarding issue. All adults have a duty to report incidents which could indicate sexual abuse. OP also needs to protect her DD as these recordings exist on another phone. It would be wrong not to report it, at least to the school in the first instance.

Show me yours if I show you mine was definitely a thing when I was a child in the 80s. A female friend asked me to pull my pants down so she could see if she did it first, in the playhouse in the classroom. I didn't want to but I do remember she did. I can't remember what I did. We were much younger than 9. I still feel weird about it but no documentary evidence exists.

I tend to agree with this I’m afraid.

it’s all very well random strangers getting up in arms and going to the most extreme solution but it’s worth having a sit and think.

SS and police don’t always cone along to make things better, and they don’t work in partnership with you either. Decisions about your children will be taken out for hands and there’s lots of box-ticking depending on what action they decide to take. For example SS might put you on a plan that requires a bone visit and a school visit every X weeks until Y is achieved. These can be distressing for the whole family. SS and police always work very differently too. Sometimes it can absolutely be the best solution and you do get good people providing support but personally I’d never ever open my kids up to that unless it it was absolutely necessary and in your case I’m not entirely sure it is!

I have a friend whose DD last year (a bit younger than yours) went through something similar, I won’t give details, and absolutely nothing happened with the police but she got a very incompetent and unkind SW assigned who gave a list of innocuous reason as to why she has concerns over my friend (not her husband) that were seemingly steeped in sexism and judgement and she’s still on their backs to this day. It DOES happen, you do get shit people in these jobs. Just to warn you if you do go down that road!

All adults have a duty to report incidents which could indicate sexual abuse.

Those who work with children do, not the ‘general public’. Only the OP has seen this video out of all of us and would know if the tone or language was sexual - it’s a valid point to say it may just be body curiosity, and as a PP pointed out people will be coming from a viewpoint of total faith and competency in police and SS when that may not be the case.

The horrible and stark truth is that a police investigation would be short and come to nothing. 9yo’s aren’t culpable and The threshold for charging an adult is insanely high. Police resources are together than ever and they may find the juice isn’t worth the squeeze so to speak. I hate to say it but it’s true if modern policing.

Alot of people say call the police or SS inform the school maybe have more confidence in what can be done (not much, they are both young children) and what can be achieved by informing them.

I don't have a lot of confidence in what can be done, but a little hope.

At the moment, OP's DD's genitals are on a boy's phone. Anything OP can do to try and get them removed, are protecting her DD. The chances that the boy never ever shows anybody is slim. The chance that he doesn't send it to someone one day - could be next year or next week - is also quite slim. OP needs to engage professionals to try and get the images removed because she can't do it herself.

Another pp said it's like "you show me yours". Perhaps, we don't know. But in a major way it's different: it's not a fleeting moment of the boy seeing her genitals. It's basically saved in perpetuity unless OP can get the images off boy's phone and be certain they're not in the cloud or shared to a site/anybody else already.

There's also nothing wrong with coming down strongly on any child who asks for nudes. The police visiting can be enough at that age, he doesn't need to be prosecuted - and indeed can't be - so if he can be shown that this is not ok it may be nipped in the bud. Conversely, a boy learning at 9 that he can get some control of a girl's body (which is what nudes do) is not going to lead him anywhere good.

*tighter

The police visiting can be enough at that age, he doesn't need to be prosecuted

And if they do this to the boy (not sure they would?) they would do the same to OP’s DD - this could spiral to a point where a 9yo who in her view was doing something silly and childish is blown up and becomes humiliating and damaging.

Anyway OP hope you are feeling better today, take a deep breath and talk to someone close to you that you trust l, you can’t carry this burden on your own.

OP not saying anything, doesn't mean it won't come out.

Can you really trust that the other parent has deleted the video(s)? It could have been sent to others or uploaded to social media by now, who's going to investigate this?

What if the other parent reports it?

What if the other child goes to school and talks about it? Or her own DD?

What if the other child needs protection? Or are we not bothered about that?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/sharing-nudes-and-semi-nudes-advice-for-education-settings-working-with-children-and-young-people

This is what the school should do

Go to the police first op. This might blow up bigger for your daughter if the school tries and does anything and it becomes more public knowledge. Go to the police who will, unfortunately, have every day experience in this and will talk to the school and manage it in the best possible way. You also need them to get his phone so it can be checked if he has forwarded your daughters images to others. Cut out the middle person go to police first - school would involve them anyway presumably.

Please never use the term "child porn" ever again.

Op your daughter is 9 - is there any chance this boy is 10? If yes than at 10 children have legal responsibilities and are subject to laws etc.