Distraught and need advice regarding 9yo DD

[DistraughtMother]

Hi, I don’t know where to start really and posting here for traffic. I can’t even believe I am writing this, I cannot stop crying and can’t think straight so I need some wise mn’s to help me please.
Firstly I will start that I have been stupid and irresponsible and too trusting to let DD have a phone, it was purely to stay in contact with friends on WhatsApp and nothing else.. and here is why you don’t give 9 year olds a phone😞
Tonight I was taking funny photos on DDs phone with her younger sibling, and came to delete some. When doing so it stated “moved to recycle bin”, clicked around and found the recycle bin. In here is a video of her (9 year old) (male) friend, who has videod himself talking to the camera asking DD to show her private parts, the camera has then moved downwards towards his trousers and I deleted it permantly, was not watching anymore!
My DD, my 9 yo daughter, has videod her privates and sent it too him. She was up in her room this evening when I saw this, I went in and calmly explained what I had seen, and tried to discuss boundaries and how serious and inappropriate it is what these 2 have done. I told her how much I loved her and that I was worried for her, she kept telling me she didn’t want to do it but she felt like she had to.
I don’t know where to go from here. I don’t feel I explained It well enough, I tried knocking at the boys mums house but all curtains were shut and no answer. DD got really emotional when I said I’d need to speak to the school as I don’t want them anywhere near each other, she cried and begged me not to tell anyone, but I have to don’t I? School can alert appropriate authorities who can talk/explain/find out things in a more child/sensitive manner. I can’t just brush this under the carpet and pretend it never happened. I’m worried about approaching the boys mum on the school run in the morning as she’s known for ‘well it wasn’t my child’s fault, they are not to blame’ etc. Please be kind, my tummy is doing somersaults and my throat hurts from so much crying.

I’ve not read all the responses to your post but I just want to give another opinion/experience that we all need to be educated on (sorry if it’s already been said). The boy may have been made to do the video too and made to ask other children to do the same. My step son was made to do a video;
He was given a smart phone from about 11/12 by his mum. When he was 14 he had to admit something to his dad because he was acting up and behaving very upset (like we do ourselves with major anxiety about something). It turns out he had created an Instagram account for things like his piano pieces etc and some nasty pedo made friends with him via private messaging. Made out it was a young girl and eventually during the grooming phase got him to send a video of himself down there. As soon as it was sent he was threatened to pay money otherwise it would be sent to all his friends on Instagram (the vile person(s) had added several of his friends and was threatening them for money too, unbeknownst to each other). There were probably other threats of sending this video somewhere but what I’m trying to say is the boy in this situation might also be innocent and been made to ask for a video and told what to say or do for this.
The police were told immediately and they gave a very reassuring chat but also a serious one so that he knew what the implications were. It was a huge learning curve for him. Fortunately he couldn’t pay th vibe ppl as he has no funds/cards himself so had to come clean. (A reason for saying no to bank cards for youngsters I feel).
my daughter isn’t at school yet so I don’t know official routes but I’d go with previous posters and tell the school, nspcc like they say PLUS the police. They will all advise you next correct steps that ensure these kids feel secure going forward and possibly obtaining forwarded videos etc. X

Despite what posters say if you DO go to the police it will NOT ‘become public knowledge’. Agencies do actually work discreetly, it’s hardly gonna be in the school newsletter FFS.

It's a safeguarding issue. All adults have a duty to report incidents which could indicate sexual abuse

Op's duty of care belongs to her daughter, and the well being of her child. A huge SS investigation and school and police being involved could be extremely detrimental to her well being - not to mention the fact that neither the police or SS are likely to be able to do anything at all given their young age! So it will all be for nothing, and the photos/footage may still be out there. Both parents will be investigated not just the boy, and you have more confidence than me if you think this will be an easy process. Quite the contrary.

It is possible the little boy has seen porn and is acting it out, or is simply curious as children can be. Or there may be bigger problems, it is not op's role or responsibility to second guess - and at this stage it is wild speculation. If she has solid concerns for the child, she can put a call in to SS about him and not give her name, she does not need to drag her child through police and social service and school investigations to achieve someone checking out the little boy's life.

Given that it seems relatively innocent to me, and children make mistakes all of the time. Then the best thing to do, in my view, is not to blow this into a huge incident but to deal with it calmly and with care, allowing her dd to chalk this up to a life experience and be able to move on, without the fear and genuinely frightening experiences of official investigations that are likely to lead precisely nowhere. I am saying this from experience.

OP needs to be protect her child.

@Northernlassie1974

"Schools have no powers to deal with what has happened"

Yes they do, you should read the safeguarding policy on your school's website which clearly shows the chain of who they report to which includes the police as well as other teams to provide wider support to the family involved.

Schools have a Designated Safeguard Lead and deputies. Even as a mere volunteer in a primary school I had to have safeguarding training from an outside professional who comes into the school to refresh and update our training, plus every year I have to read and sign a safeguarding policy alongside several other policies.

OP I would speak to the NSPCC but also book to see the designated safeguard lead at your DD's school. If you ring this morning and tell them it is a safeguarding issue and needs immediate attention the DSL should be dropping everything to speak to you. Your DD may not be the only girl who has sent this boy videos or photos.

Exactly, why do people even want that to happen?!

Also posters shouldn’t assume that just because he’s a boy he will be the one getting a short shrift - of the OP’s DD gets loving support the boy bloody well should too!

I imagine they won't get involved in squabbles between kids on line - in the same way they don't get involved in face to face arguments and fights that happen out if school They will definitely be involved and concerned about safeguarding issues.

School will also hold information about the other child and his family which NSPCC and police won't be aware of.

School has a designated safeguarding lead (DSL). They are the place to start and will drive it through social services and police in the appropriate way. Or you go directly to social services if you want to report a safeguarding concern about the boy.

School cannot give you details of what they have done.

Consider what your child is going to gain from this experience?
And consider it carefully.

Very best case: It will be handled discreetly, and you will have a social services investigation for a few months, a police report and it will end with no action being taken. There are no guarantees about the photos/footage, as the police can rarely trace them, and are overwhelmed as it is with serious child abuse cases and CAT A offences, this is not going to be a priority for anyone I am sorry to say.

Worst case: It is not handled carefully at all (which many will testify) and all the children talk about it at school, and dd becomes humiliated, and no longer wants to go to school. The social services are called, and they start their investigations and decide you were at fault for giving her a phone or that she is at risk in some other way, and this goes on for a very long time creating a great deal of anxiety and worry within your own family. The police interview your child, she is beginning to feel traumatised by all of the focus and stress of all the adults around her, the police do nothing afterwards (as is more usual than not with cases like this) This triggers a long period of great stress for all of you. The situation remains the same as what is done is done.

You can't change what has already happened. It was a mistake. If there are other children involved, it will soon come to light.

You only have to decide what is right for your child.

Child exploitation, not child porn.

Hi again OP. Have you read the NSPCC advice on this issue? Its fairly comprehensive, although perhaps more slanted towards parents of young teens.
www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/online-safety/sexting-sending-nudes/

I should add, the first line of this ^ article points out that not all nude pictures count as sexting, so don’t be put off by that!

Urm....I am a designated safeguard lead and am well aware of the contents of safeguarding policies thank you.
As I said later in post, schools can support the people involved, yes we would record on our safeguarding files and liaise with authorities, however, it isn't for us to investigate and collect evidence. That is for the police.

I honestly think all parents should be aware of how schools work on safeguarding issues as the misconceptions on here are worrying - “call them and demand they confiscate the phone” “Refuse to send your DD back until they do something”.

Yeah right, aside from the fact they can’t and won’t confiscate a phone, look forward to a fine for an unauthorised abscence on top of everything. Also sure the OP’s work will be fine with her taking and undetermined amount of time off work because she’s busy making demands of a school that have no power.

Honestly some people are not on the same planet as the rest of us.

Some people have little or no experience of what actually happens Plasticine

Schools and the police are extremely limited as to what they can do with a case like this. Extremely limited, by their very young age.

Nothing will come of this unless they uncover a huge network of adult led exploitation - which is very unlikely. They can't seize phones, and need warrants to go into people's houses, which may not be granted by the courts as they will know you can't prosecute nine year old children for taking pictures of each other.

We have a big safety net that is sometimes for children at serious risk, we have laws to protect them, but is does not stretch to locking up nine year old children thank goodness unless it is life or death literally.

Some of hysteria on here that he is being sexually abused etc is just that. There is no indication of that. If op is worried about him, she must report it to the SS, she does not need to get involved.

OP you’ve had loads of good advice on here and it’s a case of there but for the grace of god with any of us as parents. I wish there was an age limit of 18 on the hardware and the software, with actual legal punishments for selling phones and using the apps and software underage.

We know the software damages kids, it’s all been evidenced, yet we let kids have them. It’ll be the scandal of the future like not wearing seatbelts or our kids passive smoking. I don’t know what the answer is. They will lose out socially if they don’t have any access. The government do nothing about the problems of it and don’t even tax the phone companies appropriately to help to fund safer phone use safeguards and support. It’s very sinister when you think about it, they know perfectly well what kids are being exposed to.

It’s not the same but when I was about 9 a friend and I got flashed on the way to school.

I wish we hadn’t reported it to the school or police and just got on with our lives. The experience wasn’t traumatic in the slightest but the overblown response was awful.

I feel this could go the same way.

The police visiting can be enough at that age, he doesn't need to be prosecuted

And if they do this to the boy (not sure they would?) they would do the same to OP’s DD - this could spiral to a point where a 9yo who in her view was doing something silly and childish is blown up and becomes humiliating and damaging.

The police can and do talk to children, but it's discretionary.

I don't see why they would talk to the daughter though as she wasn't asking the other child, who happens to be male, for nudes, nor did she send a nude unsolicited. The sexes of the kids aren't the issue, the actions of one in particular would be best nipped in the bud, if at all possible.

And there's every chance of this blowing up and becoming humiliating and damaging..all it takes is for him to forward it to one person, or an older sibling to find it and forward it/screenshot it etc. Anything OP can do, especially quietly, with professionals, even if it doesn't get the results, to get the images removed is in her daughter's best interest. This doesn't mean humiliating her daughter in any way. It lets her daughter know - especially if the images get out - that her mother tried everything to support her. And if things go bad, that knowledge can go a long way for the victim.

Child exploitation, not child porn.

So, in cases where children have produced videos and images of themselves without any adult involvement, it is still called exploitation? I thought that was used to show the child was being sexually exploited by an abuser.

Why is everyone saying 'talk to the school'?

Talk to the bloody police!

Teachers are there to educate your children, not parent them.

I remember being in the playground in Year 2 and showing my vulva in great detail to one of the boys and another girl, then they both did the same. There wasn't anything sexual about it, it was pure curiosity and being silly and daring. I do wonder how this sort of thing would play out over smartphones. When we did it, there was no evidence.

‘how did I raise her to think this would be ok to do?’

this is victim blaming. The child, and she is a child, is too young to be held to account and too young to have a smart phone.
**

Speak to police, school, NSPCC and every other avenue of support that’s possible.

Keep the phone, don’t delete anything off it, retrieve the original video the boy sent if possible (for police).

This could be innocent kids being curious, or an online/real life predator who is grooming the boy to target other children.

Get your daughter counselling. If she feels unsafe at school or receives any hassle over this, move her, without question.

It's the 4rth time I am hearing something very similar the past 2 months, I don't know what's happening. Talk to the school, and maybe arrange a meeting with the school's psychologist to help you deal with this.

This is true. It’s not necessarily sinister behaviour at all.
Although of course you need to put on a firm show of explaining why it’s not a good idea.
And an equally firm explanation as to why posting photos of yourself is a reaalllyy bad move.

Those are self-generated or self-produced child sexual abuse images (and yes, they're child sexual abuse images even if no adults are involved). The majority of child sexual abuse imagery that is found on the internet (and accessed by paedophiles) is now self-generated - see IWF's 2021 report here annualreport2021.iwf.org.uk/trends/ - which is one of the reasons why it's so important to talk to children about boundaries and sharing images.

I feel like some posters are missing the point that an explicit video of OP's daughter exists and is possessed by another child. Involving the police may ensure that the image is removed and is not passed on to others; OP's daughter may be embarrassed by the police being involved, but I can't imagine she would enjoy wondering whether the video is going to resurface in several months or years, and wondering who might have seen it. That will only be more traumatic for her.

I also don't understand the posters saying that other posters' concerns about the boy are misplaced. His curiosity about OP's daughter is not age-inappropriate, but I am concerned that he thinks it's OK to film his own genitals and ask for other children to film theirs. He may well have been exposed to porn - whether he has found it himself or been shown it, that is not age appropriate and could be an indicator that he is being neglected or abused (showing children porn is a form of abuse). I noticed that OP mentioned that he has a chaotic home life, which could mean any number of things, but does add to my concern about what he may have been exposed to.

OP, I hope you are able to access support for your daughter. I echo the posters who have advised contacting the NSPCC as a first step - they will be able to talk you through what will happen and what support is available. As other posters have said, it may be a good idea to offer your daughter counselling as this is likely to be a confusing and upsetting experience for her, regardless of what happens.