To think that introverts don't need "bringing out their shell!" 🙄

[MrsVillanelle]

Hi,

So this is something that has really irritated me recently. I don't really see myself as an extrovert or introvert tbh. Maybe somewhere in between. However, my dp is definitely an introvert, but a confident and successful one, which shouldn't really be seen as surprising or contradictive, but in our society, loud and extroverted characters, seem to be viewed as the ones who make it to the top.

I was watching an episode of Four in a Bed the other day and a couple of the contestants were dancing around and singing. One of the women looked happy enough, but didn't want to dance....which should be fine, but this other couple were saying quite seriously, as though she really needed their help "she's lovely, but we need to bring her out her shell a bit". I just thought, erm..why?! You actually hear that sort of thing all the time, but when you step back and think about it, how rude is that?! People don't need to be shouting, doing karaoke and dancing around to be "out their shell". These people may very well be out their shell and perfectly happy as they are.

Not sure I'm explaining very well why this annoys me so much 😂 but does anyone know what I mean?

It's such a bizarre way of thinking.

I think it is important that children are brought out of their shell by their parents, as they shouldn't live a life full of crippling anxiety due to a fear of socialising/speaking aloud etc. However, an adult who has made a conscious decision can live the life they wish to lead and if that is a more introverted one, then fine

nope. My parents constantly tried to “bring me out of my shell” and force me into situations I didn’t want to be in. That caused my social anxiety as the more they did it the more anxious I got, and social events were torture because I knew they’d be watching me and have certain expectations.

the best approach for child introverts is to model the behaviour you expect, but not force it.

btw I am more than capable of socialising and speaking in public. I was a lecturer and taught, spoke at conferences, networked etc for years. However ask my mum and she would swear that no way could I stand in front of an audience and teach.

introversion is not social anxiety btw.

Oh and btw I am an introvert who prefers crowds and small talk. I can “what do you do” all day, it’s easy and you just recycle the same trivial questions all night :)

Agree with this.

There is a difference and I think that is what badbadbunny is referring to.

I get it and I’m social, BUT I also know how to read body language and social cues which isn’t hard barring someone may be ND. I don’t get upset if someone doesn’t want to engage in small talk, I’m happy to sit in silence even if I don’t know the person really well. If I notice someone is off on their own, I may say hi and sit a seat away from them. If they look like they want to talk or look awkward/nervous, I may ask them if they’re all right and if they choose to continue, great if not, that is fine too. I usually sit next to people who are off to the side because I also like l to sit and have a moment and watch the crowd for a bit or to check something after talking for a long period.

Work though is different. If I’m busy, I don’t want to be social or distracted from what I’m doing. If it is a slow day, then I don’t mind. I like to give people my attention not be talked at while I’m in the middle of something important or necessary to do.

Like many on this thread, my school reports also said about me being very quiet. The feedback from the work experience I did (do schools do that anymore?) was that I should sign up for drama classes to "get me out my shell".
I am not in a shell, there is no shell surrounding me. This is just me, and is who I am.

As an introvert, I am drained by social things, and recharge by spending time alone. That is the opposite to extrovert. It has nothing to do with small talk, shyness, dancing, being the centre of attention or hiding away. You could be the life and soul of a party as an introvert. You can be shy and quiet as an extrovert.

Some the comments about people who struggle with small talk being rude (and gossiped about) make for a depressing read. Some people really do struggle. If someone persists in engaging me in small talk, I burst into tears. I can't help it. That does not mean I think I "am superior" to other people.

A particular pet hate of mine is people who psychically drag you onto dance floors. Please, just stop.

Nope, it was pressure to come out of my shell that caused my social anxiety. I wouldn’t be as bad if people had just let me be myself and take things slowly. It was trying to confirm that led me to doing wrong things that made me more self conscious.

@XenoBitch

Some the comments about people who struggle with small talk being rude (and gossiped about) make for a depressing read. Some people really do struggle. If someone persists in engaging me in small talk, I burst into tears. I can't help it. That does not mean I think I "am superior" to other people.

Same here. I retreat under pressure, but if I can go slowly and in my own time I can actually be quite sociable. If under pressure, I dry up and withdraw. I just need time rather than being bombarded. I also need small numbers of people, 1 or 2 is fine but in any larger group, I retreat into my shell.

Ugh I find your judgement over the GF to be a little gross. And I think making small talk is important. You have no clue why she may have acted that way and why assume she felt above you? Perhaps she was shy, perhaps she is ND, perhaps social anxiety etc etc. I just can’t imagine reacting so strongly to someone saying so very little!

This I can understand. I don’t understand why there has to be a wedge between introverts and extroverts or in this case shy/socially anxious people and social people (who can be introverted or extroverted).

Perhaps we would not need so many labels if people could just be accepted for who they are.

That person who only managed to say one sentence at a party may have pushed themselves and overcome such a personal struggle. Telling those who struggle not even to try if they can’t conform feels so wrong to me.

Not true.

I don't get upset, but my eyes stream like they would if I was. I have had years of therapy, and it has never helped. It is frustrating because I can be talking about something mundane, and my face is crying.

I have never been rude to someone at an event for trying to talk to me.
I get invited to social events because the host values my company. They don't expect me to mingle with strangers.... they always say they wont be offended if I don't go, but they would love it if I did. I push myself to attend weddings, because the couple want their nearest and dearest there. It would be more rude to turn down the invites tbh.

I am not sure why you think someone who struggles with small talk is "snubbing people".

YANBU

I was meant to write parents 'should encourage' their children and I stand by that as someone who was a very introverted child. My mother would often make me speak to relatives and thank them for cards, ask for the bill in restaurants (life skills) and one time I ordered something and I was given the wrong thing and my father made me go back and tell them. At the time I was mortified, but as an adult I am now assertive as a result. I believe that my mother and father helped me to become less introverted and shy which has benefited me in my career and relationships as an adult.

Because being able to articulate well in front of others is a key skill.

I was assessing at a graduate assessment centre and one of the candidates said almost nothing all day. This is a role where teamwork and people interaction is almost constant so the ability to talk through a problem and communicate well verbally is important. She emailed for feedback and I told her she didn't score highly as she didn't say hardly anything. She came back genuinely shocked and was all 'In my mind on the first challenge...' and 'I thought about the second exercise...' It's all very well 'thinking' but if you don't say it out loud in that type of environment you won't get anywhere.

Yes, they are all loud, brash buffoons who barge through life without a care for others 🙄

Where I am living at the moment, it is not enough to be civil and polite. I think as usual we are all talking at cross-purposes determined by the one-in-millions individual circumstances and experiences we are faced with.

The prejudice I am talking about, against quiet people, is not about people who do not respond in any way to civilities and small talk. It is operating against those who are not party animals and do not want to be dragged out on social engagements outside work, and who are not really interested in participating in loud raucous conversations that seem more suitable for hen parties most of the time.

As I said, the odd thing is that I can exchange civilities and needed information far more effectively than such people, who seem to take one look at you and refuse to engage in work-related conversations with you if you’re not the sort who will gossip ten-to-the-dozen about what someone did while pissed out of the head to a member of the opposite sex on the latest night out.

Grrr shyness / introversion are NOT the same thing.

I’m an introvert. I am a good conversationalist, a ‘can talk to anyone’ type, not remotely shy, happily gave a speech at my wedding (and enjoyed all the attention that being a bride for the day brings), enjoy socialising / a party. Love hosting friends at my home (one of my favourite things in the world). I have a high profile career.

But leave my shell the hell alone. My shell is my sanctuary. Without it I’m a drained, lifeless, exhausted husk. I need my shell to recharge, to contemplate. I bloody love my shell.

Because I haven’t forced that person to come to a social event - the key word here being social - they’ve come of their own volition. Why do you think we owe you your misery unchecked? Imagine if we all sat in silence at wedding or events, how shit that would be. Yes you should have conversations at social events, you should contribute to the group. Otherwise go home as it’s pointless you being there.

I do sometimes wonder if we’ve gone too far with the “you don’t owe anyone” spiel - I’ve seen a few threads this week where people are horrified as their children being spoken to by strangers, or having to make conversation. You may not technically owe anyone but is it worth being a dick for the sake of a righteous crusade to show how special you are?

@PlasticineMeg

You may not technically owe anyone but is it worth being a dick for the sake of a righteous crusade to show how special you are?

Exactly the same could be turned around for you too! Why do you think other people owe you to be uncomfortable in engaging with random strangers like yourself? Why should you be a dick by bullying and virtually abusing quieter people?

Yes I agree with that. There's a massive difference between someone at work who is generally quiet but gets the job done and communicates efficiently for work purposes, as opposed to someone at work who not only is generally quiet but also doesn't contribute at all in meetings, doesn't communicate on work related matters, etc. The former is absolutely fine, whereas it's really a disciplinary matter for the latter. Unfortunately, I think too many people don't understand the difference.

Because social events are literally for socialising! How is that so hard for you to grasp? If you go along and sit there saying nothing, you're basically expecting other people to do all the hard work while you reap the rewards of the nice atmosphere and entertainment. It's so incredibly self centred and rude.

Totally agree. I had one woman attend a dinner party at my house and said almost nothing all evening. It was painful. She shocked me while leaving by suddenly smiling brightly saying what a great time she'd had. She'd contributed sweet fa all night and just been an emotional hoover.