To think that introverts don't need "bringing out their shell!" 🙄

[MrsVillanelle]

Hi,

So this is something that has really irritated me recently. I don't really see myself as an extrovert or introvert tbh. Maybe somewhere in between. However, my dp is definitely an introvert, but a confident and successful one, which shouldn't really be seen as surprising or contradictive, but in our society, loud and extroverted characters, seem to be viewed as the ones who make it to the top.

I was watching an episode of Four in a Bed the other day and a couple of the contestants were dancing around and singing. One of the women looked happy enough, but didn't want to dance....which should be fine, but this other couple were saying quite seriously, as though she really needed their help "she's lovely, but we need to bring her out her shell a bit". I just thought, erm..why?! You actually hear that sort of thing all the time, but when you step back and think about it, how rude is that?! People don't need to be shouting, doing karaoke and dancing around to be "out their shell". These people may very well be out their shell and perfectly happy as they are.

Not sure I'm explaining very well why this annoys me so much 😂 but does anyone know what I mean?

It's such a bizarre way of thinking.

'I despise inane small talk' - you sound a tad imperious.

I’m an introvert and don’t get the ‘hate small talk’ thing.

Everyone needs to small talk, that’s how you get to know people. Chats about the weather, holidays, work etc. Surely people don’t go up to others and start monologuing about politics and history? 🤣

You can do that with established friends when you share that interest but not when getting to know someone.

I have it but not because I think it's beneath me. It's because I'm so bad at it it's painful for both me and whoever I'm trying to do it with.

Awkward pauses are just awful. I prefer to avoid it as much as possible.

If you know 2 people. You hang out with those 2 people. You chat with those 2 people. At the end of your time together:
1 person goes home to sleep or get cosy under blanket as they're depleted from socialising.
1 goes off to a club or another social engagement because they're energized from the socialising.

Congrats. You know an introvert and an extrovert.
Everything else, shyness, loudness, opinions on karaoke, is all personality. Personality can be shaped by introversion and extroversion with experience of the after effects of socialising.
For example:

An introvert that gets exhausted being around people will learn that avoiding too many people at once will help preserve energy levels. They may learn through at experience that if they socialise a lot on Friday, Saturday, they'll be exhausted. So they only socialise a little on Friday with a couple of people and this keeps energy in the bank for Saturday. As they learn this, it's natural progression to avoid too much social interaction, which could lead them to seeming to be quiet and shy. Etc

An extrovert, on the other hand, might feel their energy levels deplete when they're alone. They may seek out people and places that boost their energy. They may even be accused of attention seeking as that attention and interaction makes them feel charged up on the inside. Of they go to socialise on a Friday, there might be 1000 people in a club, the extrovert will be energised and maybe even 'pumped up' from the day before. Experience will teach them that alone makes them feel tired and sluggish, people make the feel up and full of beans. So they could progress to take on personality traits that facilitate socialising. Loudness draws attention, being funny draws attention. Being knowledgeable draws attention. Being the 'life and soul' draws attention. This feeds into energy levels and the extrovert feels energised, so they repeat behaviour. This leads to others perceiving them as loud and attention seeking etc.

If you're around people and you're loud, brash l, singing karaoke and centre of attention. But after ward, you crash into exhaustion and feel like you've been 'on' and once alone you can be 'off' and your true self, you're more likely to be an introvert who has been depleted themselves.

Equally if you're quiet, don't like karaoke or being centre of attention but you could hang out with lots of people 24/7 as that's your happy place and where you feel most alive and alert, you're more likely to be an extrovert.

It's when the conversation never progresses beyond the weather etc that it can feeling like hard work.

You in turn sound dismissive of those who dislike small talk with your hooting about people supposedly 'monologuing about politics and history'. There's so much ground in between, say, a work colleague telling you what's in their sandwiches and commenting on the weather every single day (which I'm sorry, yes, is bloody tedious to many) and wanting to deconstruct Kierkegaard in the lunch break. The vast majority of conversation (including small talk) falls somewhere between the two points for most people, whether extrovert or introvert.

^ can start feeling like hard work, that should have said

It's not always just a matter of an introvert being "exhausted" after a meeting/social event, or whatever.

For me, it's more about anxiety and being self conscious. I will typically obsess in my own head about the conversation, worry about what I've said, how I come across, etc. I simply can't just walk on and "forget" - it's not in my DNA. I can literally have a sleepless night going over and over in excrutiating detail the exact conversation. Likewise in the meeting/social event itself, rather than just relaxing and chatting, I'm obsessing about what to say next. That's what I find draining.

This is it.

if you have two people, and one wants to be around you and get to know you, and the other doesn’t, it isn’t rocket science which one will be the most liked or popular is it?

i do find very quiet people to be a little smug a lot of the time, happy to sit back and watch other people try to fill the silence or make an effort with them

of course that’s not the same as being shy

Perhaps the quiet people don't need the silence "to be filled" at all?

But why do you think you are owed conversation? You aren’t. If a person can’t/doesn’t want to engage in small talk, there is nothing wrong with that. You’re just conditioned by society that that’s what people do. I’m quite happy to sit quietly and watch people, watch the wedding, whatever the thing is.

I don’t need small talk. Not everyone needs it. What I need is companionable quiet.

That's not introversion though. That's social anxiety. It's a different thing.

I was talking to my colleague about introversion the other day - we both are. We talked about codependency and how we feel anxious all the time over other peoples reactions.

I said to her, I'm pretty sure as quiet babies we were blissfully happy in our own silent state just observing the world and it was probably true. My introversion that comes with being 'shy' was only a problem before people started pulling me up in my childhood about it and told me I need to speak more.

I have spent a lifetime trying to please others, 'stepping out of my shell', filling silences by speaking unnecessary and being riddled with anxiety in social situations and I fully believe now that the problem is not me, it's them.

I could imagine an alternate reality where I'm happy not feeling out of place or awkward at a party sipping my drink with a cat on my lap and having the time of my life. Instead of feeling anxious as fuck because I don't fit in with societal 'standards'

Yes, when people say they 'hate small talk', what they really mean is they're just crap at it. Most of the time it's a necessary lubricant to get to more interesting topics, and to do it well is a great attribute.

How do people who only like companionable quiet ever meet any partners or friends, surely you have to speak some time

But what about the silence once one person has said "it's windy today", and the other has replied "yes it is" followed by nothing. It's achieved absolutely nothing. Do you then have to go back and say "at least it's not as windy as yesterday" followed by silence again. Just how long do you have to talk about the weather, before you finally give up? What has it actually achieved??

In that instance both of them are crap at small talk because they're both unable to carry on and get somewhere more interesting. That's the whole point of it.

Personally, it's through work, hobbies or volunteering. Places where you've already got a common interest and can get to know people through that common interest before you move onto "proper" friendships or relationships.

I met my OH through voluntary work as we literally spent a few hours on a one to one basis, every week, so what started as an evening talking about the voluntary work we were doing soon morphed into our hobbies, other interests, etc which morphed into friendship, which ultimately morphed into a relationship. We're both exactly the same kind of people (quiet etc) which is what attracted us to each other.

My friends are, likewise, mostly through hobbies or previous workplaces, where a friendship has grown over time. I can honestly say I've not had any relationships or even friendships with random people I've met in social situations. I have a very small friendship group, but they're all "special" friends, not just random acquaintances. I chose quality over quantity.

I’m a social person and I absolutely agree with this. It annoys me when people try to fill a silence when a conversation comes to a natural lull or end. I like to look around, people watch, etc.. I don’t need to be engaged in constant conversation and can accept the end of a conversation or if someone doesn’t want to talk more. Why force it?

Some people are severely lacking in social skills and I don't think this is something to be proud of. It's a life skill that is learned. Making other people feel uncomfortable and awkward is rude.

What a load of crap! How about you might make others feel uncomfortable and awkward by dragging a conversation on with random nonsense rather than leaving the person be. That's also rude!

One thing about these threads is people can't just have an opinion and give advice without telling people that their way of doing stuff is wrong, rude, awkward etc etc. Just because YOU want to fill silences doesn't mean those that don't are wrong to not want the same. I don't like small talk (and I'm good at it if I NEED to), mainly because I have 3 kids, teach secondary kids all week and sometimes in my social/spare time I like to have some PEACE not to have my head nattered off by some random person in the hope they may become a friend because I may not particularly want any more friends. I certainly don't expect to be labelled awkward and rude just because I don't want that when someone else does. Maybe people should just get to the point and say "Apologies I don't want to engage in small talk and I wouldn't want to come across as rude by not engaging in it so I'm telling you upfront to bog off and leave me alone" - but that would be classed as rude too - can't win.

Oh well said!!
Imagine if introverts went around telling extroverts to get back in their shell - well we wouldn't say that for a start as we're "too introverted" apparently!

@pixie5121

Making other people feel uncomfortable and awkward is rude.

No it's not, it's the other way around. It's rude for a social/extraverted person to badger the quiet/shy/introverted one into conversation they don't want. Especially those who are incapable of reading the signals and continue to go on and on, no doubt thinking they're going to "cure" the shy person!

What happened to "live and let live"? Why can't people respect the wishes of others?

Where are these enviornments where people are bombarded with small talk? I have some annoying colleagues at work who go on about their family or relationships - I don't find it interesting, but to them it's not small talk: it's the most important thing in world.