Are you or do you know a traditional wife?

[Juniper68]

Just watching Stacey Dooley staying at the trad wife's home. I didn't realise there were so many of them?
I really liked the wife and dcs. The dh not so much. Choosing the wife's clothes. Making dcs wear something heavy on their back if they've been naughty 😮
I'm not against being a sahm. But him calling all the shots is so controlling.

Late to the party and not read the full thread but I thought what the TV show failed to focus on is that these people are generally christian fundamentalists. Wives submit to their husbands, are keepers of the home, dress modestly and make themselves "joyfully available" at all times. A huge amount of abuse goes on in Christian fundamentalist households. Not saying it goes on in that household but I'm not surprised that they glossed over this part..

PIL marriage was like this, and I still catch MIL trying to tell DH to make sure he's the 'boss' of the house. Luckily DH has a brain so he ignores her. He can't think of anything worse than being in charge at home.

I reckon it's some kind of fetish for one or both of them... MIL really seems to think it makes for a perfect marriage even though she seems way happier since FIL died.

@MaryChild

TBH, I really don't mind if he thinks I'd look better in something else and tells me that, in fact I actually quite enjoy it.

So it's a fetish then.

If a jewellery shop decided not to have a glass window between the street and their jewellery and someone walked by and stole a diamond ring, who is at fault

Please stop equating women with inanimate objects. We are fully functioning human beings.

Aren't we a charmer? Actually, I'm teaching my girls to behave like ladies and my boys to behave like gentlemen perhaps if you and your ilk did the same, this problem might go away. Dressing respectably and refraining from using a potty mouth is part of that of being civilised.

Oh dear, the mask has slipped. You're quite the misogynist aren't you ? Stop abusing your children, they shouldn't have to be part of your fetish.

one question, if your husband insists he wants sex and you don't, do you just let yourself be raped?

Oh I've just realised, you probably don't think marital rape is a thing do you? Fucking hell.

I’ve been a CEO for 20 years. I don’t know you MaryChild but maybe you might have the intelligence and judgement to be one too? And maybe your husband isn’t as smart as you? But you are putting your whole family’s fate in one hands. Have you ever wondered, you might just be cleverer than him or your combination of insights might be a better way to decide? Two heads better than one.

I honestly have no idea why Jesus or God or any other religious leader would imagine all judgement, wisdom and kindness is rested in one sex - especially men!

And to follow on MaryChild. Why did your God make women so smart if they were to be silenced? From Marie Curie, to Vivienne Westwood to Sheryl Sandberg? Has it ever crossed your mind that women might be smarter than their husbands or men generally? Why did your God give us so many brains? Presumably because we could use them for good. Not just cooking, ironing or cleaning.

Imagine the world in which women are the leaders? What if your daughter is the next luminary and cutting edge intellect of her generation? Is she to be silenced by a dumber man? Surely God requires us all to make the most of the talents we are given?

A huge amount of abuse goes on in Christian fundamentalist households

Absolutely this. Keep sweet, pray and obey.

I grew up in ROI and the amount of abuse there from religious men (priests, brothers) and then of course those religious came from Irish homes where no doubt there was endemic abuse too - it is just a horror story of ongoing and epic proportions. Give men power and you can be absolutely guaranteed they will abuse it and submissive women will turn a blind eye to the abuse when it happens and on as on it will go.

They wouldn't jump off a cliff for their husband. Suicide is a bigger sin than disobeying your husband. These sorts of debates would be so much more interesting if people understood the basics of the religions they were slagging off.

If you are referring to the fact that DH is the main breadwinner, I still do a little work each month that brings in a nice bit of money and almost all of that is getting banked which has added up over the years, I could return to work F/T if I wanted, so risking having no income isn't an issue.

I don't know why God chose men to lead, he just did. It was a never question of capability for me, I'm more than capable, DH and I have a similar level of intelligence and are qualified to similar levels. I just see my role as different to DH's and this comes from having faith and I chose to follow my faith. For clarity, I mean lead in a family, women who go to success in the business, sport, academia etc. should be celebrated however this isn't my path in life.

To clarify a point, DH doesn't carry the entire burden on his shoulders, I do help him, advise him, support him etc. I even give him business advice, it's really no different to how the majority of relationships work, where you discuss things together, the difference for me is that DH has the power to make a final decision which overrules mine. The truth is, he actually rarely overrules me.

This all comes from faith, faith in the Lord and faith in my husband. Every time I've questioned a teaching of the Church, I've discovered there's always been a very good reason why it teaches what it does. The Church has had 2000 years of the world's greatest theologians pour over every word in the Bible. I've got to the point where I now have total faith in what the Church teaches. Sometimes this can be difficult at times however I understand that I have to accept this. Likewise, I have to accept DH's decision, others even those with same faith as me would disagree with this.

"Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything." Ephesians, 5:22-24

He's your God too, it's up to you if you acknowledge that he exists.

I think you'll find that there is no evidence that either gender is smarter than the other. DH and I are about as intelligent as each other although that's not indicative of other people's relationships.

God called me to marriage, and asked me to submit to my husband. God didn't ask me not to work, DH and I agreed to that as we both wanted to be in a traditional family where I would be at home for the Children, partially as we thought that would be best for the children and partially as we could afford for me not to work, not every family lucky to have that choice. If any of my children regardless of gender go on to greatness, I'd be incredibly proud. I'm proud of them all already.

God asks that you live in his image, he doesn't say what you should do, however there are a few things you shouldn't do. The rest is up to you.

but if a deciding say is needed to avoid confilict/disunity the husband will decide. Say things where a couple can't agree to differ, such as on whether or not to vacinate the children, or which school to chose etc.

If my husband (at the behest of crackpot religious relatives) had decided he got the deciding vote and he wouldn’t Be vaccinating my children, I would be leaving him, not rolling over like a beaten, subservient dog.

Organised religion is a scourge.

Well. I’ve just read the rest of the thread.

I’m absolutely horrified.

Marychild you say 'the church' like it's some static thing. It isn't. Do you mean your church?

Isn't it funny how it's always the women who have to be subservient in organised religion? Wonder why that is? 🤔

Exactly. I was discussing this with my teen DD yesterday. AFAIK there's nothing in the Quran stating women must cover from head to toe including their faces, and nothing in the Bible that prohibits women from having bare shoulders or knees....so these "standards" have been interpreted by men other people....but no similar dress or behaviour codes imposed on men...

Absolutely, it's going to be one of those niche super fundamentalist churches. Cof E, Catholicism and most Protestant branches don't preach this misogynist bullshit.

FWIW if I had let my husband make all the decisions in our household, we would have been in trouble. He knew nothing about cars, for instance, being a non-driver. Didn't understand the UK school system or want to try, didn't want to shop around for insurance - the list is endless. He did have his own areas of expertise so he took those decisions, I took the ones where I was best qualified. Any deity who says it should be otherwise is a bit of a dick IMO.

So @MaryChild what happens if your husband wants sex and you don't? Do you 'submit'? And if so, is that what you will teach your daughters?

It's weird, isn't it. It's almost as if all religions were made up by men to ensure men stayed in power and women were used for cleaning and breeding. Bizarre.

I also do think good ol' Mary is on the wind up. Over-egging slightly.

So @MaryChild what happens if your husband wants sex and you don't? Do you 'submit'? And if so, is that what you will teach your daughters?

As a teen I went to a Christian youth group. I can't remember what exactly the subject or scripture we were discussing (it was to do with relationships/sex) but it seemed to insinuate if the husband instigated sex then the wife should go along with it. I asked if they didn't think rape within marriage was a thing and it was all v awkward but it seemed they didn't recognise it. (The people leading the discussion were only early 20s themselves)

Gosh this is disturbing.

@MaryChild what is this church please?

I'm pretty sure marychild is Catholic and the things she is saying aren't odd for Catholicism. You're all being very rude about her religion. Her husband is the chosen leader of her household, the prime minister is chosen leader of the country. We don't mock the idea that we have bosses, prime ministers, group leaders, managers. But because some people choose to have a leader of their family they get ridiculed and insulted. She's clearly said that her opinion matters in the relationship but her husband gets final say in decisions and that he rarely goes against her opinion. That's not weird. Why are you talking about her as if she's in an obscure cult? If it works for them what does anyone else care?

Imagine explaining the queen or the government to people that have no idea how it works and they just tried to come up with the most bizarre scenarios as gotchas. It's offensive to assume that because someone is orthodox in their faith that their husband will rape them and order them to commit suicide.

@TwentyOneTwentyTwo if it's Catholicism then it isn't the usual branch of it, is it? It's an extreme orthodox subset.

Your analogy with the Prime Minister etc. doesn't fly - they don't get to tell me what to wear and they certainly don't get to have sex with me. Yes, a boss can impose a dress code in the form of a uniform or otherwise - but even then there are limits at how controlling they can be.

It isn't MaryChild I'm concerned for - she's an adult. It's her DDs and any other children growing up in this environment and learning all this nonsense before they're old enough. This is why I have not raised my DDs in any faith, nor have I imposed my atheism on them - they have always been free to choose their own path.

My DH does everything financial, it’s the only thing (apart from gardening) that he’s vaguely competent at.
I do EVERYTHING else, I’m definitely not doing that too.

I used to go to church and there were several aspects that made me turn away from it - not least the way women were treated and the roles of women in the church. I've always found the submit to your husband verse difficult, even as a teenager and well before mmarriage.
I think the verse is open to interpretation and can be abused. A partner within a marriage imposing arbitrary dress code rules (and if theyre controlling about how you dress, chances are they will control other stuff as well) on another is not something I can get on board with, and not something I would want for my teen DD.

You're all being very rude about her religion. Her husband is the chosen leader of her household, the prime minister is chosen leader of the country

Yes, that's the exact same thing. I know the PM is always telling us to cover our shoulders because it makes his imaginary friend cross.

@MaryChild "The Church has had 2000 years of the world's greatest theologians pour over every word in the Bible. I've got to the point where I now have total faith in what the Church teaches."

I believe you said you are traditional RC. I'd be interested in your view of the teachings and authority of the theologians of the Second Vatican Council.