Are you or do you know a traditional wife?

[Juniper68]

Just watching Stacey Dooley staying at the trad wife's home. I didn't realise there were so many of them?
I really liked the wife and dcs. The dh not so much. Choosing the wife's clothes. Making dcs wear something heavy on their back if they've been naughty 😮
I'm not against being a sahm. But him calling all the shots is so controlling.

Agree.

Obedience/submission is a tool used to control women who (for reasons of grooming, coercion and pressure) either can't see it for what it really is, or cannot say no to it given the massive power imbalance.

pointythings and MistyFuckingQuigley - I don't disagree with your perspectives at all, but if you just swear at people and use aggressive language to silence them, it just makes people more alienated and less likely to engage.

Abuse in families and the Church is a real problem. I just finished reading a book by Jeff Crippen and Anna Wood called a cry for justice, which covers the topic of abuse hidden in the church. It deals with the issue with compassion and in the light of scripture. If anyone is intrested in a Christian resource on the topic.

The submission described in scripture is voluntary on the part of women, not forced by a man, never is marital violence allowed for, as the husband is to be loving and protective. In many ways both male and female Christians are called to put others before themselfs, for a wife who choses this way, it's just another expression of that principle and a way of showing respect to the man who is loving her in return.

Because a couple or individual of faith, may decide for themselves that more traditional gender roles work for them. It does not follow that they believe those roles should be forced on anyone else, nor does it mean that they don't respect other people's God given free will and right to chose live diffrently than we do, even if these people are our own family members.

If my husband is asks me to sin (lie, cheat, break a law etc.) I should obey God rather than man. If he asked me to please stop leaving my shoes on the stairs, or asks that I feed the kids a vegetarian diet then I will obey or any of his other usally reasonable requests. Likewise I have chosen to defer for final say In family decisions, athough it's rare we disagree or can't reach agreement. It's also very common for him to ask what I think we should do and then just go with it.

Nor does it follow that women or anyone, should silently put up with domestic abuse, of any type nor should the anyone in the Church enable it. If proper scriptural guidelines were followed abusers would be held to account, and possibly even put out of the church.

My exh wasn't excommunicated, and is in fact about to go into another temple marriage very soon. You aren't correct there at all, and in fact I was strongly encouraged/expected to forgive and forget DV, financial abuse, coercive control, etc. I was seen as wrong for not doing so and in fact leaving a dangerous situation as soon as I could.

Any organisation or belief system, religious or otherwise, that puts women into subservient roles (overtly or covertly) is inherently abusive and potentially dangerous for women and children.

@Gracelynn I don't think the shoes analogy and the vegetarian analogy compare at all. One is trivial and a matter of respecting the people you share a household with, the other is a very fundamental and serious matter where both parties really need to be in agreement because it affects the children's long term health. Same with things like vaccination - if your DH said your DC should not be vaccinated, would you defer to him in that? This isn't black and white, it crosses into some very serious grey areas.

And again I ask you: why always the man? I know your books say so, but books are written by people, for people, usually with an agenda. Why is it that in patriarchal religion across the world, it's always, always the man who must be deferred to, pandered to and adored? Why can't the woman be the one in charge? I haven't heard a single satisfactory answer to that one yet.

@Aslii it's actually very hard to be polite to people who are raising their DDs to be so vulnerable and powerless. I see it as very close to abusive. Should we be polite to abusers now? Most of the adults in these cults will not engage anyway, so let's be here for the children - especially the ones who make a run for it as teenagers. Let's tell them that they were right to do so and that there is a better world for them.

Don't bother, the edgy atheists are insistent on bullying women into agreeing with them just like they think the husband's do. Because a husband suggesting a t shirt instead of a vest top is a gateway to rape, murder and child abuse and the root of all evil.

They really think that if we didn't have any religions there wouldn't be war. Humans don't need religion to hate other humans, as can be seen throughout this thread.

It's funny how they complain about the gender neutral cult while using the exact same tactics. You don't believe what I believe? You must be evil and abusive.

They could criticise the Catholic Church as an institution, they could talk about aids, the Church's money, the actual child abuse, there are endless controversies with the Church. Instead they want to bully individual women about who makes the occasional sartorial decisions within a household. I think because they don't actually know much context around any religion or its followers. They're all about the equality act beliefs protection until it's a belief they don't like. A golden moment for feminism.

@TwentyOneTwentyTwo I would support the right of every adult woman to choose whatever lifestyle she wants. But not until she is able to make an informed choice, hence I would like to see all children raised faith neutral. Many Protestant denominations do not baptise anyone into the faith until they are of an age to make that choice for themselves. That's how it should be.

And if you can't see how organised religion oppresses women, you are part of the problem.

To add to the above: We do criticise the Catholic Church and its abuses. We just happen to include the Catholics Church teachings on how women should act as part of those abuses, especially where those teachings influence children.

How many children do you have please?

Why can't the woman be the one in charge? I haven't heard a single satisfactory answer to that one yet.

Because people would have to explain too much to you. You don't have a clue about any of the religions you're talking about. And I'm sure us replying to you don't know that much more. It's probably to do with all women being descendents of Eve For her share in the transgression, Eve (and woman-kind after her) is sentenced to a life of sorrow and travail, and to be under the power of her husband. Doubtless this last did not imply that the woman’s essential condition of equality with man was altered, but the sentence expresses what, in the nature of things, was bound to follow in a world dominated by sin and its consequences. The natural dependence and subjection of the weaker party was destined inevitably to become something little short of slavery. www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/eve

Catholics don't go by the Bible like other Christian faiths anyway. They believe God still talks to their Pope, now. That's why when people thought the Pope said there was no hell one day everyone freaked out, because the Popes are the current word of God. They believe they have Popes going back 2000 years, the first being directly appointed by Jesus himself. You can't understand the enormity of religion to religious people and that makes your arguments redundant. The way you carry on is like jumping onto an eastenders thread and demanding viewers tell you the ins and outs of the writing and producing of the episode. They won't have your answers, they just enjoy watching it. They're not to be held accountable for the casting and lighting choices. Google Catholicism and Abrahamic religion, stop having a go at individuals in laity.

Of course I can see it, I just don't go round insulting individual women I've never met because of my political or religious persuasions.

@MaryChild I probably know you hahah!

We have been very blessed to have our four children, athough we have always been open to having more children.

If anyone is interested in traditional Catholic families, search For the channel One of Nine on YouTube

Is not particularly extreme- it's living the faith rather than being what some would call "cafe Catholics" who choose what part of the catechism they subscribe to.

Religion aside (I'm not religious and know very little about each one), I can't understand how a marriage like this works in practice.

How do you follow a decision you disagree with, because your husband made it? What if he wants sex and you don't? Does he decide and that's it, it's happening?
What if he wants you to homeschool and you feel school is best for your children?
What if you wanted to work and he wouldn't allow it but didn't share money with you either?

I understand that in theory, a good husband wouldn't make these things happen - a good man wouldn't rape his wife or make her struggle financially etc, but abuse is so pervasive, it seems to me that marriages like this would be a very attractive idea to an abusive man.

How hard would it be for you to leave a marriage like that if you needed or wanted to?

I do have to add though, @MaryChild, your post about how women dress being linked to how men treat them is awful and victim blaming.
There was an exhibition once, showing the clothes rape survivors were wearing when they were attacked. The clothes ranged from school uniform to mini skirts to pajamas to jeans and t-shirt.
Rapists rape, it's about control and power, not sex or attraction.

Also, @Pugfostermum, can I ask (out of pure curiosity), does your husband ever have days where he isn't happy with the set up you have?
I can imagine he benefits from you being home more (and being more relaxed and happy in yourself), but my DH is a teacher and I sometimes feel resentful when he's mid 6week holiday, going hiking and out for lunch while I'm stressed and busy, tied to my desk etc. Wondering if that ever happens with your DH?

I actually find her posts wui tree beautiful in how counter cultural they are. I have met many traditional Catholics and their families and admire their lives.

So she's not allowed to explain and defend herself?

Saying wearing certain clothes encourages rape. How beautiful.

The way you carry on is like jumping onto an eastenders thread and demanding viewers tell you the ins and outs of the writing and producing of the episode. They won't have your answers, they just enjoy watching it. They're not to be held accountable for the casting and lighting choices.

You've just basically said that followers of religion are sheep.

@amoosee no, not that. The counter cultural aspect and it's interesting how upset some people are by it! I think it's great

You think it's great that some people are raising their DDs to think it's OK to be controlled by men. Riiiiiight.

@FranklySonImTheGaffer no, never and I check in regularly with him. He enjoys his work and feels proud he is providing. He’s just a genuinely lovely kind, generous, caring soul.
We are both 100% happy with the set up.

I know one woman who I'd say is a 'traditional' wife, and she always seems serenely happy. Her DH (my colleague) is polite, kind and totally besotted with her.

They both belong to a religious faith about which I know little other than they tend to socialise among their own community, but if they are both happy, then they can crack on as far as I'm concerned.