Are you or do you know a traditional wife?

[Juniper68]

Just watching Stacey Dooley staying at the trad wife's home. I didn't realise there were so many of them?
I really liked the wife and dcs. The dh not so much. Choosing the wife's clothes. Making dcs wear something heavy on their back if they've been naughty 😮
I'm not against being a sahm. But him calling all the shots is so controlling.

I knew it would be Paul. It’s always Paul.

Yep.

No it's not extreme. My family are Catholic, I was raised Catholic but I'm not now. What marychild is saying isn't extreme.

@pointythings and @SexyLittleNosferatuThe analogy is for having someone make final decisions not what the decisions are about. The prime minister doesn't decide my care plan or medication, my consultant does. They've both been chosen to be in charge very specific things.

Catholics have to go through marriage classes before getting married, they would have discussed the things that mattered to them. She wouldn't have married him if she didn't think he was a good family leader. If she thought he was going to stifle her she would have turned him down. Just like the consultant wouldn't be employed and the prime minister wouldn't be elected. She's chosen him to be in charge of her home life, for her that obviously includes clothing.

Like I said, these debates are better when you actually know a little bit about the religion. There could be interesting points made about modesty and the perception of women. But that's not what is happening, you're just being intolerant and offensive towards one person.

You're saying that women should be treated with respect regarding their choices (of clothes etc.) and that they should utilise their intelligence. But in all these incredibly rude posts pp have disrespected her choice of family management and basically told her she's too thick to choose a husband that complements her personality, desires and goals.

Her husband is the chosen leader of her household, the prime minister is chosen leader of the country. We don't mock the idea that we have bosses, prime ministers, group leaders, managers.

Whilst I don't want yo be rude about another person's beliefs these are completely not comparable situations/relationships.
All of the above apply and are voted or appointed to a position of power or authority. Often there is a hierarchy of power
PM - cabinet minister - MP - local Councillor
National manager -regional manager - manager - supervisor - entry level employee.
This is not the same as marriage which is a mutual agreement/commitment between 2 equals. Not one (the man in a heterosexual marriage) having authority or power over the other.

That’s Opus Dei Catholicism not mainstream Catholicism.

@TwentyOneTwentyTwo A cursory glance at the relationships board on here will show how often peoples choice of partner can prove disappointing if not dangerous down the line. Add in the element of religious authority being given to a husband (with no allowance for divorce, even) and it is a recipe for severe and unchallenged abuse. It isn't just about not liking the concept of a man being "head" (even though I don't)

It took a long, long time for women to get to the place we are, in parts of the world at least and that struggle is far from over. Most women will react with horror at the promotion of ideas of subservience.

As regards Paul, he was in and of his time, writing for often specific situations the very early churches. I can make some allowances for him, but not for 21st century people who seek to impose their interpretation of his teachings without examination, in a way that oppresses 50% of the population.

You're saying that women should be treated with respect regarding their choices (of clothes etc.) and that they should utilise their intelligence. But in all these incredibly rude posts pp have disrespected her choice of family management and basically told her she's too thick to choose a husband that complements her personality, desires and goals

I'm afraid I have absolutely no time for people who use old storybooks as a basis to attempt to oppress 50% of society. You are free to class that as intolerant and rude.

Why is the man always the head of the household though? Why is man always the default? Do couples who are having meetings with the priest before getting married ever decide that it would be best for the woman to have final say on all decisions? If not Why not? Are women not as capable? I was going to ask what happens in same sex relationships but then realised that most religions don't acknowledge same sex relationships so its a moot point.

No it's not extreme. My family are Catholic, I was raised Catholic but I'm not now. What marychild is saying isn't extreme.

Absolute nonsense.

I'm Catholic born and raised and so was everyone I grew up with. I know NO families who had a submissive trad wife set-up.

Not one.

The majority of Catholics don't practice Catholicism, they chose what suits them even if it goes against the teaching of the Church.

Do you go to Mass every Sunday and every Holy Day of Obligation? Do you go to confession regularly? Do you ensure that you are free from sin before taking communion? Have you refrained from using contraception? Refrained from sex before marriage? Always been open to having children while having sex? Do you think abortion is wrong? Do you dress modestly? Transubstantiation? And the primary question is do you live your life in God's image? These are the most common things Catholics don't do and they are all in the Catechism,

So you might know lots of Catholics and they might even all go to Mass regularly however unless they live their life as the Church teaches then they'll incur the wraith of God. If you are Catholic, then I can't possibly fathom how my life seems extreme to you unless you've never read Ephesians 5:22-33, you must have heard it, it's read at Mass often enough. It's also the Epistle if you marry using the 1962 Missal and is one of the choices you get for a reading using the modern form of Matrimony.

Find a therapist, find some self-esteem and free yourself from this bullshit.

Ah, other Catholics do not follow the exact same regressive ideology I do so they can't be real Catholics. How arrogant.

Trad marriage husbands are often rampant shaggers who are poster boys for infidelity. Whilst good little wifey sits at home.

Marychilds posts are so gross and I feel so sad for any daughters she has, imagine your mother telling you that you will always be less important than men and your brothers. Disgusting.

Also Marychild I'm Irish, obviously brought up in a hugely Catholic society etc literally no wedding I've been to in the last 20 years had "obey" in their vows and I don't know anyone in my circles who view their husband as their boss

I was born into "being Catholic" but absolutely walked away from it as soon as i could, how you can look at the scandalous way men in that church have abused women and children and stand here saying men should be in charge of women, makes me sick

It's really interesting that in so many ways you can't put a pin between the views and practices of extreme trad Catholicism and extreme Protestantism where it concerns women. Submission to a headship, "modest" dress (for women) stereotypical gender roles, long long list.

It's "wrath" not "wraith" BTW @MaryChild

Pretty much all organised religions (organised by men I might add) want to own women, our bodies and minds. Quoting the bible as "proof" it was "god" who said that's the way it should be. The Bible written by men of course.......

You've spent the last 24 hours hurling abuse and trying to belittle everything I've said. You've made numerous assumptions based on your ignorance of religion and prejudice against it and dictated to me what I should do based on your misguided conclusions. This is arrogance.

What I did was point out what the Church teaches, I didn't come up with these teachings and I've already admitted that at times, they have been hard to follow, however I follow them as I have total faith in what the Church teaches and that was gained from asking sufficient questions and being provided with sufficient answers that my faith was complete. What others do is their business and ultimately God will judge us all, however if the majority of Catholics do not follow the teachings of the Church and I do, then I'm going to seem odd and that was the salient point and from that you concluded I was arrogant? That's rather insulting behaviour.

This is one of those times you should step away from your keyboard and reflect on what you've said, try and look at ways where you could have been nicer, this is the road to making yourself a better person. Perhaps you should start by putting yourself in my shoes and read the verse in Ephesians I keep mentioning, then contemplate on it. If you were me, how would you interpret it? I'm not a crackpot, I'm not weak, I'm not stupid, and I'm not arrogant. What I have is faith and I know it is difficult to accept that someone has total faith in God but I do and if you think that's hard, try showing a bit of empathy by wondering how an intelligent person came to accept total faith and then place that exact same faith in their husband, I made that step.

The good people among you, religious or otherwise, who are reading this will just accept that I have faith and won't insult or belittle me and just accept me for who I am. You might want to live your life differently to me, and that's absolutely fine however accusations of child abuse because I want to raise my children to become respectable and principled adults is disgusting behaviour.

As for crwnhgow, I can only pray that the Holy Spirit leads you to become the person you are capable of being. I'm sure you are better than what you've said to me.

The good people among be do not accept misogyny. Or homophobia as you have displayed on another thread. You act self-rightous yet victim blame rape victims. You accuse me of being rude yet have said plenty of unpleasant things to me and others on this thread. I don't have a prejudice religion but I don't like it when it's used as an excuse to preach misogyny, and when people pass those damaging lessons to their children.

As for your point about following the teachings of the Church, those teachings and the teachings of the Bible more generally have been interpreted in thousands of ways throughout the centuries. It's your insistence that your interpretation is right and everyone else is wrong and just doing what suits them that is arrogant and insulting.

So what you are saying is that I despise women? I never said that nor do I even imply it, in fact I said quite the opposite at one point.

I also never insisted that I was right about Church teachings, I did insist that I had faith in Church teachings and I did also state what the Church teaches. You are still reading into this things I've never said or even implied, again that's your prejudice. Please, I'm begging you, take some time to think about this, you clearly are intelligent however you are being blinded by your prejudice.

Oh and righteous has an e in it and you've missed out the word against between prejudice and religion. 😀It's best not to try and correct other peoples typos as you are bound to make them.

The verses in Ephesians you keep quoting is one very small part of scripture @MaryChild and written by Paul. They are not part of the direct sayings or teachings of Christ or in any way indicative of how he saw women.

I would be more interested in how you view the importance of the Samaritan woman, or his conversation with Martha and Mary, or the role of Judge Deborah. All those things and many more are in the same Bible and just as relevant as a few verses that are used to justify one particular position.

You clearly believe that men and women are unequal, because you think women should obey men, and that they should dress modestly for the sake of men. You compared rape victims to shop windows. That is misogyny, pure and simple, and you will pass it on to your children.

And you also accuse me of putting words in your mouth, but I have never corrected your spelling.

I'm of Irish descent, a large number of English Catholics are

To the best of my knowledge the word obey has never been in Catholic wedding vows, I have a 1962 missal and it's not in that, I didn't say it and I was married using the 1962 missal. I think that's a traditional Anglican thing.

There has been some truly despicable acts committed within the Church, all I can do is ask that you don't judge the majority based on the wickedness of a few. How any God-fearing person could commit such acts is truly disgusting.

Raising your daughters to think they must obey men is also truly disgusting. If that is what scripture says, then scripture is evil. Personally I think it is one interpretation by a small group of people who think they know better. That is arrogant and misguided, and I pity children raised that way. They are ready made for exploitation and abuse.